Alex Hormozi: Why He's Trying To Make More Money & How He's Doing It

Like everybody here, we can all consume whatever we want. So we can fly on whatever planes we would like, you know, you can fly private, you can stay in the nicest hotels, get the nicest Airbnbs, go out to dinner every single night of the week at the 5-star restaurant, at the Michelin star. And you can do that for the rest of your life, but I can't buy that skyscraper right there. And I can't buy this huge company. And so what happens is like the things that you want to buy change. And so you create a new deficit for the amount of wealth You won't, again, this is just assuming you like the game. And so like, I like the game, so I just want to keep playing it. I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off.

On the road, that's how I go. Where should we, where should we start? Because you do a lot of these interviews. What, uh, what's the fun version of this for you? Because I feel like if somebody actually wants to know an answer to something, it's been published. You got a book, you got a Twitter, you got, you got a thousand YouTube videos. Like if you're motivated, you can go find the answer. Like I tweeted out, yo, Alex coming on the pod today. What would you like to know? They're like, I'd like to know his thoughts on offers, making a sure offer. Like that's literally his book. And I think the book is like free or 99 cents. So like, that's just a lazy, lazy question at this point. But I know whenever I do interviews, there's some version of the conversations that are more fun or I'm like, yeah, when we talk about that stuff, it's more interesting to me. And that kind of lights me up in a different way. What is that for you?

Well, I'll say there's two things that I've been probably focused a lot on. One is obviously acquisition.com and so like what we're doing and, and, um, kind of clarifying the mission between, well, all the stuff that we're actually doing every day. Um, and then the other side of it is just that the Leads book is coming out soon. And so it's tough because I'm sure you guys have had stuff that you've worked on and, uh, it's like been on its way coming out and all of your energy is going into writing it or building it or recording stuff about it. And then you can't talk about it because I don't want to, I don't want to I don't want to talk about it all the time until it's like ready to, to go off. And so the 6 weeks beforehand is when it's like, we have all this prerecorded stuff. I've got like full courses. Like I've got all this shit that's gonna, that's gonna drop. Um, when the next book comes out, but I haven't talked about anything leads related for like 2 years because I've known, because I've been working on it for 2 years, uh, for the next launch. So those are the 2 things, um, that are like top of mind for me, like what we're doing on the Mosey Media side and Acquisition.com and then, and then the lead stuff.

What's the split between those two? So you got media, you got Acquisitions.com. Give me the time split. So given on a given month, you know, what percent, if there's a pie chart, what are you spending on the content versus acquisitions? And then also on the money side, like, uh, are you making more off the media or are you making more off acquisitions? What's this? What's the relative difference between the two?

Are you enjoying it?

Yeah, I dig it. It's fun. Right now we do, I record once, so to answer your question, Sean, about time split, Uh, we do one recording day every 14 days. That's like the direct-to-camera stuff. And then, you know, if I do a podcast, like I got one of my guys here, Trevor, um, who's recording, you know, our, our side of it so that they can clip this stuff later. So any ad blocks plus one dedicated day twice a month.

Are you enjoying like the celebrity that comes with this? You know, getting noticed and things like that?

Um, enjoy is probably like, cause I feel like there's some people who love attention and there's some people who hate attention. I'm like right in the middle. You know what I mean? Like I was, I was purposefully deliberately not public because I wanted to be rich and anonymous. And that was kind of like the mission for a long time for me. And then now that we are on there, I would say that there are pros and there are cons of increasing, you know, fame or what do you want to call it? Recognition. I think the pros outweigh the cons, but there are cons.

Like what?

You get weirdos. You know what I mean? Like we have security, you know what I mean? Like we go to, like, I can't, I can't attend any event. Like I can't attend an event. Like I can't go to somebody's like small group meetup. Like I can't, like it's, it's very hard because I can't enjoy anything because I'll have a line of people or, you know, asking for advice or signatures or pictures or whatever. And like, again, I am grateful as shit to everybody to do that. It's just like, it's a different experience. So I just have to, I have to, if I'm going to go to something, I go into it knowing that's what my experience is going to be. Not whatever or whoever's on stage.

Yeah, it makes the online experience dope, but it makes the real life experience less different.

I remember talking to Tim Ferriss and you could just tell from the outside, but he, I don't know if he's mainstream famous or not or if I'm in a bubble, but he's popular enough that he has all these people listening to him and all that stuff. But he, what the cool thing about him was, he had high-profile people and people who, like a lot of people who listen to you, you're like, I'm thankful that you listen, but I don't exactly want to go hang out with you. But he would actually have a ton of listeners who would reach out to him who were like, you know, like the Matthew McConaughey's of the world or some like football coach or Ryan Holiday has that too, where it's like someone who's like a big deal who you're like, oh my God, you listen to me. That's amazing. I would be honored to go and hang out with you. And he had He had stories like that and Sean and I have had that a little bit where like some like business person who we both admire will be like, yeah, I heard your pod on this thing. And I'm like, oh wow, you listened to that? Has that, have you crossed that threshold where you have people who you admire who are messaging you and being like, man, what you said was really cool. What's your, you know, I have a question about X, Y, and Z. And you're like, oh man, that's amazing. My heroes want to talk to me now.

Yeah. I mean, yes. I don't want to put anyone on blast, but like, There have been some mega, mega influencers who followed me and hit me and they were like, dude, this is awesome. And I'm like, well, now I think less of you because you follow my content. So I think red flag there. I told Layla the biggest red flag I had with her was that she was into me. No, I'm kidding. But yeah, like some NFL players that I used to really look up to, like huge MLB stars, like and like huge, huge podcasters that, that, you know, followed me and, and yeah, it's been cool. One of the, one of the reverse situations is when I like go to like see, I'm like, oh yeah, how is so-and-so celebrity? And I click and it says like follow back and I'm like, oh shit. But no, it's, it's cool. I mean, it's, it's, it's surreal. I'm sure you guys have had, it's surreal.

It's very, well, I grew up like admiring Lance Armstrong. I'm big into endurance sports. And one time I got an email and it was like, Hey, just want to let you know, I love the hustle. And he signed it with Lance and the, you could tell it was Lance Armstrong by his Gmail. And I was like, I don't believe this is really Lance Armstrong. If it is, here's my phone number. Call me right now. And he called me within like 3 minutes and I was like, he paused. He goes, Sam, what's going on? And I was like, Lance, is this really you?

Father?

Yeah.

And then I had a couple other athletes holler at us and I remember thinking, like growing up playing sports, I would've killed to have an athlete like this recognize me and I could never achieve the athletic greatness enough for them to acknowledge my talents. And then now you just take this total outside path and you get to it. Or like one time we had, like, this was really weird, but like the lead singer of Linkin Park, Mike, he like tweeted out that he likes our pod and the hustle, whatever. And I was like, oh, that's sick. Like I never, I would've wanted to have met you, but there's no way I could have gone down this normal path. But if we went this weird way, we finally kind of met. And I found that to be very strange and awesome.

Yeah. It's sort of that be so good they can't ignore you as a general advice for life. Like whatever you want is on the other side of you being so good that you can't be ignored at anything. At anything. And also, like, it doesn't have to be, I think that's kind of what you're saying, Sam. It doesn't have to be the thing you expect, right? Like, oh, you want, you know, you want to meet Warren Buffett someday. You don't have to be a stock picker. That's not, that's probably actually the least likely way that Warren Buffett's going to want to know you. And in general, you shouldn't really pick based on what they want. You should just pick based on the thing you can actually get so good at that you can't be ignored. And it's hard to do. Obviously, that's hard to do, but it's like more of the— it's more of the right guidance than many other bits of advice you could take as far as like a North Star for how you're going to like, you know, what you're going to go for.

Right, exactly. And so anyway, it's cool that we're all kind of like seeing that in reality come true. Are you enjoying acquisitions.com? Because I know when we first talked to you, I think you were maybe only a year or two years in. You're relatively new. I think you had just sold Gym Launch, are you happy with like, is it what you thought it was going to be? And do you actually like doing it? And by the way, explain what Acquisitions— what that is.

If you started it the next day, that means you kind of had this idea cooking. So what was the, what was the genesis? Why did you, why did, what made you realize, oh, this is what I should do next. I should buy these minority stakes in companies like the one I just built and I should get this domain name, which I assume you had to buy. So how were you so ready to do that? What was the thought process?

And so what's, what's that business do?

And it varies. So it's children's photography, right?

Dude, that's insane. And you, so when, when we last had you on, I saw, I went to the website and I was like, okay, cool. What, what are the acquisitions? Great. What are the, what'd they acquire? And I saw Basically like Enchanted Fairies. And I was like, okay, cool. They're doing like the gym launch playbook on this other space. That makes a lot of sense. And if I go there today, there's still those same companies. So how come you're not putting new acquisitions up there? I assume you've made a bunch of acquisitions, like, you know, in the last 24 months or whatever. Why not put new companies up there? You're pretty open about other stuff, but in this case, you're not putting them up there. And then also, let's start with that.

So you're going all in on this. And so I asked you originally, Are you happy with how this is working out? Is it what you thought it was?

What's he going to say? No.

Well, yeah, it could be like, well, he's like, well, I didn't realize like, uh, this is actually just mostly a due diligence game.

Um, and I don't know if I love it.

I mean, what's the worst part about it? What's something you didn't kind of, what's a downside you didn't fully respect upfront?

You've had a pretty ridiculous deal, right? Like I had a friend message me that was like, dude, Hormozi's playbook is obviously amazing, but he's like, this deal that they offered us, He's like, I don't know who would take this. And, you know, he's like, there's, I don't know if this is actually the deal or not, but he was like, basically it was like no money, we'll give you no money, but we get ownership if we grow it above X. So it's kind of like, I think sounded like more of a risk-free strategy in a way. But is that, is there a standard deal structure? And is that it where you're not putting capital in? You're basically saying, Give us the equity. We guarantee we grow by this much. And if we don't, some, I don't know, some, some clawback.

We've iterated it honestly a bunch of times. So one of the, one of the, so this is to answer your question, Sam, like probably even more poignantly now that we're getting into it. One of the hardest things about like the investment cycle is that when you're making a product, right, you're trying to sell a service, you can ideate it, create an MVP, pitch it, see how it goes within like 60 days, like the whole, like the whole thing. Soup to nuts. You can do that whole cycle 60 days. For deals, it's like you can think of an idea for a deal structure. It takes 90 days to 6 months to close the deal. And then it might take a year to see even just some preliminaries of how do we like this structure? How does it work, et cetera. And so I still feel like we are most in our infancy in the deal structures that we have. So in terms of no money in, There are deals we put money in, there are deals that we don't put money in. It depends on the deal. The big one for money is it depends on what the need of the business is. So if we're opening up a lot of brick-and-mortar locations, like we're about to, I think we might have actually closed today or tomorrow on a 28-location chain. That one requires capital to open more locations. So that one, I'm like, I know where the capital's going. I see what the returns on capital are. Let's go out. Right. If it's a national-based service business. So let's say it's mortgage sales. There's no CapEx. They just need recruiting. They need good guys. That's how sales gets increased. And so that's where, where's the money going and what is it used for? Because what I don't want to do is just like, someone got to go buy a mansion after I write a check. That's not the goal here. The goal is that we're both together wanting to grow this massive thing. And so it just really depends on what the nature of the deal is. So that's number one. In terms of how we structure them, originally I had more of a grand slam offer type thing. Now it's just much more straightforward of like, we are equity holders in the business. It's interesting because it's actually gotten less cute and less clever as time has gone on. Like, it's just much more like, this is our deal. Like, we own a big chunk of the business and we're going to grow it. And I mean, the thing is, is that for us, based on my holdco, Costs, like I put $500,000 a year in labor into the businesses. And like, that's if I wanted to like not mark up labor, like that's hard cost. And so if a company, for example, you know, is doing whatever, $5 million a year in EBITDA and I'm buying a, you know, a one-third stake or a 40% stake in the business, like what am I valuing it at and how much of that value is going to come in the form of of just work that we're going to do. And so that's where the valuation and how much cash in, et cetera, kind of becomes more like per deal basis. But yeah, so the long story short is one is soft influence has been something that I've been learning. We may in the future just do more majority deals where the founder stays on because like what I want to do is show how much more we grew this. Oh, I mean, we do have obviously some minority ones that have crushed too, but like I want to murder this majority deal and be like, wouldn't you like to have 49% of something 10 times bigger or 100 times bigger? And so that's kind of the angle, but yeah, we're learning every day.

We talked to our good friend, Andrew Wilkinson. He's done a similar-ish thing as you. And then we've got a handful of other friends that have done something and they're like, well, I got really inspired when I read the Warren Buffett book and that taught me a little bit about compounding growth. And other people have cited other books or things that they learned where they're like, oh no, this is the way to go. And that's what I, that's why I got into this. What about you? What transitioned you from going to this like almost PE model versus just one brand model?

Sean, would you have done, what do you think?

Would you have done that?

I think he explained it beautifully. I think he explained it exactly beautifully and honestly, which was that 2 things you just said that resonate deeply with me. One, this is the last thing you just said, which is to have what you want, sometimes you just need to make space. And so this is like, I learned this through relationships. You're dating somebody, you kind of, they're not exactly what you want. They're not bad. There's nothing wrong. There's nothing terrible about it.

So most people just stick with it for years and years and years.

And then they're kind of like, well, if there was like a much better option, then yeah, like I would feel more comfortable just like going from being single, but I've always been very quick to just, if I know this isn't it, I'll break up. I don't need to have another great option ready or like shown to me to make it real. I know that if I make space, then great things can appear. And sometimes you just got to do that. Like I've taken, like when we sold Bebo, it was the same thing. I had, I had been doing this thing for 6 or 7 years and the business was doing okay at that point and thought like, you know, but in my heart of hearts, I knew this is never going to be massive. And we had all gone into that business with a basically like, yo, let's do something massive. So by other people's standards, it might've been a good business by our own mission. It was going to be a failure. I knew that. And so it was when I was out with a friend and he was like, I don't get what you're doing. And he's like, you just need to shake things up. And, um, you know, I was shook. I couldn't sleep. I was like, he's right. Like, I've been doing this for too long. I need to shake things up. And so I went into our investor the next day and I just said, I think it's time we change things up. I said, I need to change things up. I said, you know, if you want to keep going, I will help you hire a CEO and you can take, have somebody else take this over. I'll give you back my shares. I don't need a thing from this. Like I will do whatever I can or give me 30 days. I'm going to see if I can sell. Or I'm out. Like, those are the— this is either way in 30 days, this is going to change for me. I've just decided to make space basically for something. He's like, well, what do you want to do next? And I was like, I have no idea. He's like, well, no, really? Like, you know, usually people when they're, you know, they come to me, it's because they already kind of lined up something else. I was like, no, honestly, I have no idea. I just know that I need to make some space. And so that part resonates with me. And also the idea of like, you, like, when I look back now and I'm like, oh, like before I sold our company, if I didn't, if my company wasn't going to be the next big thing, I would just shut it down, literally just turn it off, take a zero on it. And then I just started looking around and I learned this word acquihire in Silicon Valley. I was like, oh, people just sell failing companies? And then I learned like, you know, the asset sale. It's like, oh, you could just sell the code and the assets? Like, wait, who are these buyers? And I didn't even really understand what my options were. And so when you talk about basically I could have refinanced, I could have just refinanced based on the business assets, took 90% of the value. I felt that same stupidity later, but that's life. Life is basically looking back and being like, I was such an idiot. And that's how I mark years of time, not by the calendar days, but by number of times I look back and say, God, I was so dumb. I didn't even understand this. I was sitting on something I didn't even really under— I didn't really know what I should— now knowing what I know now, I know exactly what I should have done. And at that time, I didn't even, I wasn't even aware that I was making a mistake.

Well, the difference is like, I think that we all, us three actually have done where we are tacticians. So like, I understand how to grow shit. And I understand like, you build this page, you do this thing, you write these words, here's the customer, you talk to them, whatever. I think the gap you have to bridge is becoming a, from tactics to strategy. And I used to like make fun of all my buddies who are in finance. I'm like, dude, you're just like an Excel monkey. You don't know anything. Like you're just, this is stupid fucking hedge fund and maybe it makes money, but you don't know shit. And then I realized, like, when they talk about debt and stuff, I was like, I'm not going to pay attention to any of that because I think that's stupid. And then I realized how it starts working and I'm like, oh my God, that's the strategy. So it's like, that's the strategy. And that, and I was like, oh, I used to think I'm, I've got good vision. I understand how this shit works. And then I realized how money worked a little bit more with debt and borrowing other people's money to do this and like taking money off the table and all of these like terms that I kind of heard about, but I didn't exactly understand. I realized, shit, if I'm going to be like really good at my job, I got to be good. I got to understand the tactics. You really also have to understand the strategy, which Alex, it seems like you're actually now, now you get the strategy of how money and business works, not just the tactics, which the whole $100 Million Offer book, which I read, I think it's awesome. That's mostly tactical, but the strategic shit is what you're saying of like, oh, you can borrow other people's money and to do this, that, that's some big picture shit. Yeah, without a personal guarantee.

We talk about that table a lot, like the comfortably poor, comfortably rich. Then you get to like Rich, rich.

I should bring you to your feet and then you kick me. This is how I get repaid for this.

That's how it felt. That's how it felt. And so I wasn't, I like, I think now I can handle it a lot better, but at the time I just like, I felt so disenfranchised. I just felt hurt honestly, because I really poured my soul into trying to fix the gym industry. And so when I felt that way, we created Space and then it just became an asset we owned and that's why I was open to selling it. But like, I haven't felt like that until now. And maybe it took 2 or 3 years for us to, for me to refine what that big mission was, but that's something I can get behind. Like that's something I'm fucking amped for.

It's so funny you mentioned the Elon big mission thing. Like this guy, he did it with Twitter too, which was really funny. And then while he was doing that deal, news came out. It's like, oh, Elon Musk impregnates like this woman who worked for him. And he's like, he was like, he's like overpopulation, underpopulation. Like we were at risk of population collapse. It's actually the biggest risk of all. And he's like, I'm just doing my part. And I was like, this guy, Teflon Don, like How did he get away with this? He spun that shit like a— like he did a full like 540 on that thing, spinning that to be like, actually, actually, I was also saving the planet with that one too. I was like, this man, you're welcome. Like, what's that thing they call it where it's like just like the male, male bullshit? Like the abilities for some, some men to just absolutely bullshit their way out of everything. And Elon's got that. Like he is the world, he is the world leader in that. I think there's wisdom in it though.

Like in terms of like, cause even thinking if I wanted to create a stronger narrative, cause like I'm already amped about this narrative, but like I would just look up stats on worker involvement and talk about how like it's the end of work and until, until unless something changes. And so it's like, we're saving work. Yeah.

It's all what story you're telling yourself because then you'll tell that story to others. And if that story serves you, then, then great. I mean, I think. I personally, I think this is the Silicon Valley, like, uh, what, like PTSD or whatever, where it's like, anytime I hear a mission statement, I'm like, just shut the fuck up. Like, tell the truth. You want to make money. Great. You want your own life value to increase. And you realize that in order for you to get that value, you had to create more value in the world. And so you identified some people that needed something. You provided that value in spades, whether that was dentists need better software. Or that's, uh, you know, the world needs a social network, or we want to send disappearing photos back and forth to each other's phones. Like, um, you know, you hear Evan Spiegel, like you go look at the original landing page of Snapchat or the emails that he sent to the sororities and fraternities where he's just like, the landing page is like two chicks in a white bikini, like kind of like do it like taking like a naughty selfie basically. And then there's a giant timer where like the, the, the, the photo is going to disappear. And same thing when he's emailing the frats and sororities telling me, he's not saying, I'm trying to, you know, reinvent the way that humans communicate. Actually, you know, 75% of our brains is wired for images, not text. And so I wanted to make a messaging app that was image-based and that, you know, and then you hear him do the pitch and he's like, you know, for too long images have only been used for memories, but I wanted to use images for communication the way we originally did with hieroglyphics and shit. It's like, bro. It's okay that you thought this app was fun and cool and like that it might be a hit and it took off in like, you know, these like schools and because people wanted to get around, you know, their teachers or parents being able to see photos in their camera roll. Like that's okay. And, uh, but they always do this. They always tie it back to something.

Now the word is, uh, now it's the D word. It's democratize. Oh yeah.

We're going to democratize access to private limos. Really? Uber, like, and then of course, what does it become, right? As the marketing teams get in there and the consultants get in there, they're like, we're, we're, our mission at Uber is to make transportation as readily available as running water. That's big. That became their mission statement.

It sounds fucking crazy. Yeah.

But at first I was like, but it's been real.

You didn't start by showing up in a black limo.

Yeah. You didn't start.

And literally the early stories of anybody who knew Travis and Garrett at Uber was like, they would be like, dude, check this out. Push a button while they're at their, at their like Michelin star dinner and be like, watch this. Car shows up and they're like, yeah, that's right. It's baller, right? I could see where he's at on the map. Like, this is amazing. This is my private driver. You know, I summoned him through my app. And it's like, there's a, there's always to me, like the disconnect between what I think the truth is, which is a little bit skeptical and jaded. And then like the revisionist history story that like sounds really admirable and noble and like, I personally have just come down and I've landed on like, I'm okay with the truth. I get that human nature, we're kind of just primal animals and it's okay. You seek pleasure, you avoid pain, you like status and you, yeah, you don't want to be low status.

Like Alex's, Alex's, uh, like mission. So like, you know, Alex, maybe it started as like the mission of our company is to get your money and to put it in our bank accounts. You know what I mean? Like that, like We're changing our bank account $1 at a time and we're starting with your dollar by making it our dollar. Like, it's like, uh, what? Yeah. Have you heard of South Park where Cartman has Crack Baby Basketball League? And he's like, someone's like, look, we need to pay our babies, our athletes more money. He goes, look, ma'am, I don't make up the rules. I just think them up and write them down. Like, what do you want me to do? Inevitably, or I imagine it started with, I just want to get rich and do dope shit. And then it changed to this pretty grand thing of changing work through, instead of using praise. When did that change?

I think it's a yes and. So Sean, I'm like the bullshit-o-meter, et cetera. Like I full-heartedly hear you on that. And I think that one is that the truth can change. And what I mean by that is because it's not, like we're not talking about a fact, we're talking about truth of why someone does something. And so like why someone does something can change. So like when I started Gym Launch, I've said this as many times, like the mission of Gym Launch was to not be broke. Like that was the mission of Gym Launch. But what happened is after I saw the lives that got transformed from it and I was no longer broke, the mission had to change because I had accomplished that mission. So the mission had to get bigger in order to continue to expand that because I had families relied on me, employees, et cetera, customers. And so it did truly become to take its knees, uh, knees from its knees to the gym industry from its knees to its feet. Right. And so like acquisition.com started with the thing that I was passionate about because the only thing I was passionate about was just spreading like good business. Like I love talking about business. It's like my favorite thing in the whole world. I talk pictures about business. I write books about this. I make courses about business, make content about this. Like, and then I do business in the meantime. Like I fucking love business. And so that was the only thing that I felt passionate about. And so that's what I made the mission about. But as we've walked the path, realizing that like the reason the businesses have done really well for us is because of the cultures that we create. And we believe that those cultures create better businesses and honestly also better working environment, like generate really good bottom line, but also really great experiences for the people who work there. And so like, I haven't been amped about it. And so like the truth of why I want to go there now, and now I see that a much bigger picture than I did when we started it 2 or 3 years ago. I think that, I think your reasons evolve. And so I think that it makes sense that I think it's both honestly, like Evan Spiegel's personal goals. He was like, he had transferred money from that person's account to his, to the degree that he could buy whatever he wanted. And so I think you just think more about it and you're like, why do I want to do this? Because you have to have a reason. Otherwise you just, you go into a ball of nothingness.

And so, yeah, well, look, I mean, in the back, I think the best way to actually learn that, um, we were talking about the last episode, we talked about, uh, What's the restaurant? Panda Express guy. And then, and we were like, you know, he, he, he just sells like orange chicken. Like, that's not exactly inspiring, but like, he, he, he employs like 20,000 people and he like gives these guys, I think he, we were talking about, I have my notes here. He gives them all, like, he pays a little bit for them to go to Tony Robbins. He gives them like the Think and Grow Rich books and like all these books. And he's like, yeah, like the whole chicken shit. Like, that's kind of cool and all, but like, I'm actually like taking an hourly wage worker and we're trying to like elevate them. And so I'm like, oh, I can get behind I'm in on that. And if you look at like a lot of non-tech or non-Silicon Valley companies employ like 30,000 people and they're like, yeah, you know, we sell tires and that's cool, but I'm really just trying to like, we create jobs and that's very fascinating and that's really exciting and that's cool. It's better for the economy or like, you know, some of these like really boring brick and mortar businesses. I think that's actually where you see a lot of really cool missions or like, if you, I've read the, have you read about the Koch brothers?

Coke Industries. Yeah. Yeah. Coke Industries.

So basically it started with the dad. He was like an oil guy and then they used the byproduct of creating oil to create all types of plastics and whatever. And so now it's arguably, it goes back and forth as the biggest privately owned company in America. And he was like, no, like my whole thing is like freedom for people, you know, and I want to like teach them that they have autonomy and like through working here, He's got a whole book on his management systems and he's like, more so what I'm inspired about is like, uh, is like giving empowering people. And so anyway, when I read about those like older companies, I actually think that that's a bit more inspiring than like some dork saying that he's changing the world one like computer chip at a time when it's like, uh, I don't know, like that's not exactly inspiring. You know what I mean?

Maybe it hasn't played out yet.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like if Bill Gates said he, like when he started was like, I want to have a computer and everyone's like, okay. And then he did it. And so I think, I think part of it is also like, what snapshot on the timeline are we looking at? But dude, I 100% agree with you. Like I love, like you have, it has to, because basically it shifts from internal to external. Like in the beginning you do it for you. Obviously you do it because you get, you get praised instead of punished. Like you have good things, more good shit than bad shit. So you keep doing it. But once the thing that was good, no longer like the diminishing return of the pleasure of more money isn't there anymore, then you have to find a new You find a new goal, like you said. And then, and if it also coincides with other people being motivated by not making Alex rich, but by proving a point that we can create companies that reward instead of punish and actually have better returns, like I'm juiced and like we haven't proved it yet. That's fine. We haven't proved it yet. We will.

I want to ask you two questions. The first is around people you admire. So we talked about the Panda Express guy on our, just our own last episode, because we were featuring It was like Crazy Rich Asians basically was the theme of the episode. And then it turns out he lives near you or whatever, like, you know, you're both in Vegas. Who are some people that you admire? So I always find this interesting to hear who kind of like stands out and why for different folks. So who are some people that you admire either past or present, you know, people that you've met? Because I know that this kind of like getting famous on YouTube thing opens up a bunch of doors. You meet a bunch of cool people that like you otherwise you expand your circle of people you get to know through this stuff. So who are some people that you admire?

What's interesting about you is that you're pretty good at, you're very catchy. So like the whole knees to feet thing is pretty awesome. And then what was the line for your current company? It was reward versus punish. Yep. You're pretty good.

We want to beat them at their game and we want to do it our way.

Well, you said we want to beat them on, we want to use their scoreboard, but do it our way. So you've got, you're quite lyrical. You've also done a few, there's like actually a handful of things that you've talked about very like casually that I've caught onto that I really like. So for example, you say dessert, what do you say? Dessert every day? Never skip dessert. Never skip dessert. And then you also, because your whole like dieting thing is you eat all of your protein earlier on and then you You're like, all right, now I have fat and carbs. We can go big on those. And like, you've done like a few things outside of business that I find like almost more impressive, or I actually use on my daily life more so than your business stuff, which I actually found is pretty funny. You also have, I don't know if you've seen this, Sean, but if you Google, like, there's this like 23-year-old Alex who does a thing where he's like, I'm going to do a bulk over the next like 8 weeks. And he has like before, during, and after photos. And like that stuff I look at significantly more than a lot of your business stuff. I find that some of your fitness and diet stuff, like more interesting and applicable in my day-to-day life than the business stuff. I'm shocked that like—

A living for like, I, like I joked about it in the comments once. I was like, people like admire our, like my way of thinking about things in business. And I was like, For a decade, I did that with fitness. I just don't talk about it because everyone feels entitled to opinion because they have a body. And I just, and I hate, I hate getting into the, they're like, well, what about salt? I'm like, dude, just fuck off. Like, just, you know what I mean? Like, I have so little patience for it. Cause I'm like, look at you. And like, if you were more in shape, and by the way, no one who's been more in shape than me has ever criticized any of the content I've ever created. It's just like people who are wealthier than you never say shit about business advice. So like about, you know, I'd be like, no one ahead of you ever shit talk.

Well, the cool thing about it is like, I use the fitness analogy a ton in business because I'm like, well, it's hard, but it's simple in that if you lift this much weight and eat like this for a year, you're not necessarily going to look like Arnold or be lean or whatever, but you're going to be pretty good or better than where you are now. And you just got to do it for like 2 years and you got to like be fairly strict about it. So like, that's why the carryover is quite fun watching you do both of those things. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Yeah. I mean, simple, not easy. I feel like it's the fucking theme of so many things like fitness, nutrition, marriage, business, like simple to do or simple to understand conceptually, very hard to do.

What's the simple, not easy for marriage?

I mean, I think it's reward more than you punish. I mean, it actually comes down to that. So like, okay, if I want my wife to scratch my back more, I have to wait until she scratches my back of her own volition, and then I have to reward her immediately. And then she will want reward more. And so she will do it again.

Very Pavlovian of you.

Well, yeah, I mean, I think we're all that, you know what I mean? Fundamentally, there's 3 things you can do when anyone does anything around you is that you can punish them for doing it. You can ignore that they did it, or you can praise them for doing it.

Have you ever heard, um, the Tony Robbins, like, I forget what he calls it, but it's like the four styles of being in a relationship. He says something like this. I don't know. Have you heard this thing? It's like the first one, let me see if I can remember it off top of my head. So basically he goes, you know, first one's like a baby. It's like, I need love and I don't have to give anything to you. So it's just like, I cry, you give, and that's it. Like, you better be happy with that arrangement. So that's like one relationship you can have, one style of relationship you can have. And obviously like doesn't work out very well once you're an adult. You can't just cry, expect to be given everything you want, and then not have to do anything in return.

He calls that baby love. So that's baby love.

It's like, I love you even though you hate me.

Like a monk can be like, I pray for and love even my enemies and those trying to hurt me. And he is like, you know, nobody gets there, but like that's aspirationally what you could get to as well is like, you know, the love like a monk who loves even their enemies. Yeah. And those who try to cause harm.

And so those are the 4 levels of love I remembered.

Alex, do you ever, so like I saw this video of you the other day and now everyone's like giving you a hard time. Or they're just teasing you in a good way about like your outfit because you wear the same clothing all the time. So you made a funny video about it and you go, instead of just saying, oh, it's comfortable. You go, dude, I'm just more Darwinian than them. These shorts, you want to go work out? I can go work out. You want to go to a restaurant? Yeah, that's what he said.

He goes, you want to go swimming?

These are waterproof. You want to go out to a restaurant? These look just good enough that I can go and do that. I can do anyone. I can do anything. I'm Darwinian. You're not. I win.

You lose. I bought the shoes you had mentioned because you, you were like these sandals, these are The perfect sandal for working out, running through, you know, like walking through rain, climbing a hill, or like being at the office. And in the comments, everyone's like, yo, what's the sandal? What's the sandal? Where's the affiliate link? We can't find it. And then some dude like 50 comments down, he's like, dude, that's what the, it's this brand. The Nightshade color of this thing. I was like, all right, respect to this guy for finding it. I'm going to go buy this thing. Do you ever like.

Did your mom and dad ever be like, hey, quit being such a douche and just wear what we bought you because be nice. Like at what point do you like, are you like, this makes sense for me and also like it's good for the brand versus like live a little and like, let's just fuck around. Do you know what I mean?

I think, yeah, like good for the brand is actually not like really a thought when it comes to it. Like I believe that like brand comes as a result of rather than Like conscious, you know what I mean? Like, like people were like, so when did you think of never skip dessert? I was like, I was making fun of fitness people because my original audience was fitness people who obsessed about like not eating cookies. And I was like, fuck off. Yeah. I mean, like eat dessert, you know what I mean? But do it in a way that you can still have a six pack all the time. So that was why I never skipped dessert. It was always like never skip leg day, never skip Monday. I was like, never skip dessert. Like the calves thing is because like I genuinely have started training. I started, I start every training session. Since, since a girl told me that she thought that my calves weren't big, uh, it's been like 12 years, 14 years that I've, I start every session with calves. Um, and so like my calves have grown a lot. And so everyone's like, oh, Jeanette, like my calves were sticks and I trained the shit out. So like, is it part of my brand? Yeah. Because it's in some ways like it's true.

Lindsay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the motivation, Lindsay. 14 years of fuel you gave me.

And it's the, the outfit thing is actually because my, It's my content team that wanted to make content about it because they're like, dude, you're a fucking maniac with this. Like, I feel like people should know this because everyone who knows you, like, in person knows that, like, like, when they walked in for, like, almost a year and a half, there was stacks of shoeboxes and I would wear different shoes for a day, an hour, a day, a week. And they kind of graduated to, like, if they're good enough where I can walk around the apartment, then I'll walk around for their day. If I can walk around with them for a week and I still like them, and most of them never got there. So I have a few finalists that got to that point, but like, I think I just like obsess about making things better. Same thing's like, if I do end up doing a, you know, if there is a good enough company that does nose strips, like I'm going to iterate the product a bunch of times until I think it's absolutely untouchable. And then I'll say, this is the one I use. And I can say that, say that with confidence because I, I did the, the work on it. For me, I hate, I just hate having to change. Like, I don't know what it is. It's like, it means that I started my day, like, not thinking about what I was going to do. So I was like, okay, well, if I can create a setup or a uniform for myself that I can be in the most environments. So for me, I'm really never in less than 40-degree weather, like, ever, because I usually tend to be in warmer spots of the country in general. Uh, and so, like, this, this outfit goes 40 to 120 degrees. And so, and I can go to the gym, I can go to the pool, I can walk for hours, I can walk all day. I can go to a nice restaurant. I can do all those things.

So, because if they need to do it, but that's crazy because your wife, who I've seen, she dresses lovely. She like, it's fashionable. So her hair always looks nice.

You know what I mean?

Like I said, it goes 40 to 120, like a, like a car goes 0 to 60. And I mean, like this flannel, this jacket right here, this thing goes 40 to 120.

Once, once it's, once it's below 40, I get cold. So I have to put pants on. Um, but like up until then, I'm pretty much good within that range. And so like, I can, I can button things like this thing can go full, full sleeves. And like, I'm like, that's when I'm in like mass cold mode. Or if I go to a restaurant, there are fire sleeves. I can have that. Right. But otherwise, um, you know, like I'm in beater mode. Like we go to the gym, you know what I mean? We go to the pool, we go to the beach, we go wherever. I'm going to be in beater mode. You know what I mean? And this is the only sport I try to sleep in.

Sport mode. Like, put you in sport mode like a car.

Yeah, well, my whole outfit has sports mode. People are like, Proxes, like my whole outfit has sports mode and comfort mode and weather mode. And I can, I can do that. And so anyway, I mean, like I, I enjoy, I enjoyed finding each of these things almost as much as I enjoy wearing them. And I, and I, every morning, and this is true, like every morning when I put this on, I get like a little, a little boost where I'm like, I know that I've picked every single one of these pieces out and I have no doubt that this is the best thing for me. Like for my day. And so like, I know that the brand of white beaver that I have on right now, I tried 40 or 50 other brands on and I want, I knew this one sat where I wanted to sit. It wasn't too thick on the shoulder or too thin. It didn't drop into some string on the back. Some people like that. I didn't want that. Um, like beaters themselves are thinner than tank tops. They're ribbed so that they fit right. I think even like, have you ever seen those Under Armour tank tops or those like shrink wrap ones? Like they don't look good. Like I think they look synthetic. And for me, I think they look like kind of synthetic-y, like I don't like it. I like cotton better. Um, and so like, there's just a number of iterations. Like if I talked about the shoe, I could tell you a zillion things that I looked at. Like, I mean, I just, I, I have like an Excel sheet that like, I thought you would have.

I have a few friends like that. I'm not as extreme, but I like buying and testing like a ton of stuff. I think Sean did. Sean wears, uh, ordered like 20 of the same shirts. What products? This is actually interesting. This is, I don't think this is like too inside baseball, but what products and brands things do you obsess with and love in your daily life?

Well, I won't say them because I'm in talks with like half of them right now to try and figure something out. But I will caveat that with, I think that in general for people, like my life might be different than theirs. And I think just being deliberate, like so many people just like sleepwalking through life that like they're always sitting there with their pants that just don't fit just right, or always don't have this thing. Like a lot of stuff I modify. So like I'm like my gym bag, like there was a video about my gym bag. Like I tried out a bunch of different bags and I finally found a bag that I liked and then I modified the shit out of it. And like that bag now, every time I go into a gym, people are like, dude, that bag's awesome. I was like, I know because I made it for this function and it's great. And I love it. It's really good. You know what I mean? So I think it's more just like finding the, like whatever your 40 to 120 is, because maybe you live in Michigan and it's always cold. It's like, well, you're gonna have a different. Standard, standard wear. What shorts are they?

I thought you used to wear just jorts. I used to make fun of you for wearing jorts.

I used to wear jorts, but jorts didn't— so I'll tell you, I used to wear jorts because they were more comfortable and I could do more casual settings with them, right? They're like always showing up in like athletic shorts. You know what I mean? Just like, it just, it looked, it looked like almost too casual, I think. And a lot of restaurants are like no athletic wear. And so I was like, okay, well. That's annoying. And so then it went through this whole thing where I had to find like the best short. And then while I was doing that, like the ones that I have have back hooks on them so that if I can hang them to dry, I've got an iPhone pocket in there that's built in. So like, cause I hate having to sit and then you take it out of your pocket every time you like, it's such a pain. Like, well, there should be a pocket for this. Everyone has one. Right. And there's like a little place that I can put like an iPad, iPad pencil in my shorts. Cause I use my iPad a lot. Um, like I've got cargo on the other side and, uh, these are stretchy, but not too stretchy, but they're stretchy enough.

Like what do you think? What freight you hauling in there, buddy? What do you got? What type of, what do you need the cargo for?

A lot of times it's mic packs. Gummy bears?

No, a lot of times it's mic packs. So a lot of times it's mic packs because we're getting report, like right now my mic pack's in my cargo pocket. Um, but like I could fit a water bottle in here if I need it. Um, or, uh, or a hotel key. Like hotel keys there whenever we're traveling, or I use my Nicorette because I actually Nicorette. So I'll have Nicorette in my pocket if I go on a podcast. So I just, I like always have the stuff that I need there.

You know, well, it's just funny. The best, the best way possible, man. This is my, these are my favorite kinds of pods when you find out, you know, it's like, I want to see your weird. That's when I know you. Until I see your weird, I don't actually know you, I feel. This is my personal my personal thing. And, uh, I'm glad we went down this rabbit hole because I got to see your weird.

It's funny because we'll let— later on, right now, my— actually, I'm not going to show you the brand, but, um, I've got this backpack here, right? And this backpack I wore, um, I can wear it like when we travel, I can wear it everywhere. And it has everything that I use to travel, and I can travel for for 4 weeks with that because all I have to pack is 3 pairs of shorts that are identical, that are multi everything. And then I just have an amount of tanks that is whatever the laundry cycle of the trip is. And that's it. And I could put one flannel on top and I'm, I'm good. Like, and I don't even have to use the expansion part of that backpack, which I have options if I need it. Uh, and so like, and it has a cool front thing for all my wires that's flat. So it doesn't take up space. Like there's just a lot of, like, and I went through a zillion different bags to find that. I went through a zillion different bags to find the gym bag. But like, now whenever I pick it up, I'm like, this is the best bag for the job.

You seem like a clutter-free guy. Like, do you have a cleaner who comes to your home very, very often and someone who does laundry? And also, do you own, do you not own a lot of stuff?

I don't. Layla does. Right. And so like, I, I, that backpack and like tank tops, like I can fit my entire wardrobe on my bedside table. And so super easy. Uh, and like when I was trying stuff on, uh, you know, one of our assistants will come and they'll return, you know, anything that, that I don't use or whatever. Um, but like, I think we're, I think the underlying point here, there's like Layla doesn't do that at all. Like, cause that's like, that's not real. Like she doesn't like that at all. Like she grew up really poor, always wanted to have nice, nice clothes. And now that she can, she loves wearing nice clothes. And she feels good wearing nice clothes and she gets hit up by the designers to like go to the runway things because she, she wore like one piece of her wardrobe is the entire cost of my wardrobe, like one piece, like a top.

What is the best way you spend money for you personally? Like not like a business investment that, you know, you're, you think it's a great ROI or you get a bunch of joy out of it or it's like dope for you that is let's say, not your content team and not like something that's directly in the business? Yeah.

I mean, I would say JSX is wonderful since it's in the Southwest. So it's a, uh, it's like semi-private flying. Yeah. I fly with them. It's pretty good. Oh, it's great. I mean, it gives you, so like, I, the only reason we fly private is because it saves time. It's the only reason we do it. Like, and you, a lot less hassle, but JSX allows you all the benefits of private flying. This sounds like a fucking JSX plug, but it's really good. And a ticket's like $300 when it would normally be like $50. So if you want to fly JSX from Vegas to Salt Lake or Vegas to Scottsdale or Vegas to LA, it's $300. It's nothing, right? And you really, you walk up to the plane, you get on the plane, and then you walk off the plane. Like, that's it. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's just like private. There's just a few other people there. And private flying, in my opinion, has the most benefit for the shortest travels. And the least benefit for the long travels. Because like long travels, you want to fly as high as possible, as fast as possible. The bigger, you know, the bigger the plane, the better. And, um, and by percentage of the trip, you know, the, the going through security and dealing with the hassle, if you have a 5.5-hour flight, 5.5 hours versus like 7 hours of transit, doesn't like the day's fruit. Like it's kind of like it doesn't materially change a lot, but on a short travel where you're going like sub, I would say sub 2 hours, like you can, you can double the length of the trip or triple the length of the trip by going in reverse, cut it in half or by a third by flying private. And so that's where I feel like you get the highest marginal benefit. It's also the cheapest private flights are the shortest ones because it's by hour. So that's kind of like when we, when we, when we go back and forth and usually the only times we'll fly private is if we can't get a direct.

JSX flight. We'll wrap up in a second here, but last time you were here, Sean asked a question about your portfolio and I want to follow up on it. What's your portfolio looking like in terms of both your private investments as well as what are you doing with your money? Are you keeping it in equities, bonds, cash? I think last time you were super heavy cash, if I remember correctly, or alternative. Yeah, that's what it was. It was treasuries. You're like, I'm almost entirely treasuries. What's it looking right now in terms of like a, if you could do like a pie chart and percentages?

And yeah, I would imagine you probably don't own a car and you seem like you'd be right.

So Layla has a, has a one of those H2.

Electric Hummer pickup trucks. Oh my gosh. That's hilarious. Yeah.

The huge one. Yeah. She was like, I want it. I was like, okay. Actually, no, it's not really my role. Mine would be, if it were me, I would have a Dodge Caravan that was like all blacked out, tinted windows with the TVs, you know what I mean? In the back, like sliding door as I pull up. That would be more my style.

And are you renting? You're renting still? Or do you own that place?

No, we actually just bought, we just bought a place. We were running for a couple of years and then Layla found one that she was like, I want this one. So I was like, all right, get it. So I'm actually, so we, we just moved today actually, or yesterday was the official move. So that's why my background is now my office closet, but we're actually retrofitting a closet here to, to be my office.

Dude, I heard that Derek from More Plates, More Dates, I had heard a story. So he basically started the, his whole video thing when he was, you know, no one and he just had a shitty apartment. And I had heard a story that he is back. The original video was just him on a white wall that he cut that white wall and put it into each of his now nicer homes or apartments. I had heard he took that wall with him everywhere. So even the shade was the same. I don't know if that's true, but I had heard that and I thought that was pretty funny.

I'm a big believer that like Derek obviously knows what he's doing. I just always just want, like, if I move, you guys will, like, my background will change and you'll know that, like, something's changed in my life.

You know what I mean? Well, he's way more private than you.

Yeah, he's way more private. He doesn't want anyone to know his last name, et cetera. You know, different strokes. I think on a long enough time horizon, everyone will find out your last name. I mean, Lady Gaga tried to go by Gaga, but, like, you can Wikipedia her name. So, like, you know, you can, you can find it if you get famous enough. And I figured that, like, we will get famous enough. And so, It hasn't been something that I've tried to protect a ton.

Well, thank you for coming on again. If you go to our YouTube page, My First Million, you're actually like the, I don't know what they call that video, but you're like our main page video.

It was like the pinned video for a while.

Yeah. And it's like a quote of like, I've come to the conclusion that I just like to work and I don't like when people ask me why am I working all the time or something like that. But thanks for doing this again. And we really appreciate it.

No, I mean, thank you guys for having me on and thank you to the audience for maybe making a request to have me back on. So I appreciate it and it means a lot to me. So thank you guys for just being awesome hosts in general.

Awesome.

Well, that's the pod. Yeah. I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off. On the road, let's travel, never looking back.