Meet The Man Behind Conor McGregor’s +$650M Empire

What was reported, I think, was $30 million to Conor and $100 million to Floyd. Was that what was reported?

I think it was certainly higher for Conor than I know. And, and, you know, for Floyd, I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher, just depending on what he did again.

Wow. You really think that $100 million was true?

Well, I mean, I— Conor was, you know, I'd say just under $100 million, right, when it's all said and done. So that's his part. So again, he has a part— we had a partner in the UFC, so and I won't get into the specifics, but yeah, so from Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could have pulled in $100 million, assuming that he didn't take it all. I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off.

Adi, I see all these interviews with you. I see you on the UFC, like, behind the scenes stuff, and you're always wearing slick suits. And you're dressed nice right now, but I just saw that you're drinking out of a Stanley mug. Just to remind everyone at home that no matter how fancy someone is, we all have a little basicness inside of us.

You know, I always say like, you know, it's business much like sports. You have to, you know, you wear your uniform to play the game, right? But we're all human at the end of the day. We all have our casual clothes or, you know, our at-home.

I've only seen one interview you, and I've watched a bunch of interviews. There's only one interview that you weren't wearing a suit. You were wearing like Lululemon. In a hat. That was the only time I've seen you.

I'm gonna have to switch it up now, man. That's it. You know, I have to switch it up. But it's a pleasure to meet you guys, man.

You should zig and zag the other way, because I think a lot of people in the, like, agents, talent management, they all are all, like, very slick looking. You should go the other way, right? Like, um, you should go athleisure as your main thing, because you were an athlete. So I feel like you could pull that off, and a lot of guys in that space will all look like suits to, you know, in comparison.

I'm gonna have to, man. I'm gonna have to, to make people remember that I was actually one of them before I became a suit. Exactly.

There were, well, there, there was some bum out there in San Francisco who was the first person to wear just like, you know, pajama bottoms and a t-shirt instead of a suit. You, you just, that, that's, that, that's your burden now, I guess.

I'm from Cali too, so I gotta start just rocking flip-flops, you know what I mean? Just, just all, all good with the flip-flops and the shorts.

In Silicon Valley, uh, it's like the opposite. Like I remember when I first moved here, I went to like this nice kind of like club speakeasy type thing. And everybody's waiting in line and a guy walks up with a hoodie and, you know, it just looks completely disheveled and the bouncers know like, all right, this guy's either homeless or a billionaire. We don't know which one. We gotta just err on the side of maybe this is like the next Mark Zuckerberg. Let him in, let him in first and go that way. And I, I realized, oh shit, the status game is different here.

That's funny. I heard a lot about that. Yeah, certainly, uh, counterculture, if you will, to business, the normal, the New York, the New York hustle is all suit and tie, whereas the San Francisco hustle is definitely flip-flops and, and holes in your t-shirt, you know.

So your introduction here is, it's, it's, it's, there's, you've done a bunch of stuff. So, so you've started Paradigm, which is, uh, an, you just call it an agency, a sports agency, sports management company.

I'd say it's a sports management and entertainment platform. It's what it is.

Platform. All right. With, uh, the most famous guy being Conor McGregor, but I also think you have Izzy. Do you have one more champion on there? I thought you had three.

So Izzy's a former client of ours, but definitely was an amazing client while he was with us. Uh, Michael Bisping, Michael Bisping, Stephen Wonderboy Thompson, Michael Venom Page, Rico Verhoeven. Past clients, obviously like Chris Lytle, who was actually one of my first clients. That's how I got into the sport. But yeah, very fortunate to work with some of the greatest fighters of all time though.

Yeah, so just a bunch of ballers, but then you also co-founded Proper Twelve, which we're gonna ask you all about it, but according to the headlines, it was like a $600 million exit. So you've had some, maybe even more success there than the main thing.

What's cool is, um, so you run a talent kind of like, let's say, well, part of your business is talent management, talent agency. And that's cool. There's a bunch of our audience that also owns agencies, which I think is great. But what I liked about you is that you have also kind of the venture side. So you're like creating brands and business ventures off the talent. And we've talked about these kinds of creator brands in the past. We had, uh, you know, MrBeast on here and he's got all these kinds of like Feastables. He's got other., you know, corporate brands underneath it. We had an Instagram star, Dani Austin, come on and she's got Divi, like a haircare brand that's doing, you know, way more money than she can get kind of just in, in versus like influencer brand deals. And so what I like is that you've got—

and Rob Dyrdek.

Yeah.

Rob Dyrdek. You've got both. And that's been a theme that we've kind of been, been playing with. So I think we'll, we'll try to hop around a little bit, but I definitely want to—

bless you. Bless you. I mean, I'd be remiss if I didn't give you those two. Sorry.

Oh wow, what a gentleman.

Look at that. John may edit it out and then—

no, keep that in. That's, that's a character show right there. I'm like, I'm talking, if Sam's dying over there, I'm gonna finish my point. I don't care.

They were paying Spike to put themselves on TV.

That's a— that's publicly known. They were actually, you know, paying for that airtime. So the original Ultimate Fighter and then all, all that was broadcast on Spike back in the day. Um, yeah, they were not only funding their own production, but they were paying for that airtime. And, and Fox was that really first paid deal that the UFC garnered, you know, and which was a monumental milestone for the sport and for the promotion. And sport of mixed martial arts, you know, is— it wouldn't be here without the UFC, which is the catalyst for where the sport is today. Now you have other promotions that are competing, and promotion is very synonymous with leagues, right? So when you talk about leagues, you know, there's certain terminologies within the sports world that are very similar, although there's a lot of differences as well, right, in terms of athletes in the NFL, NBA being employees, and then fighters being independent contractors. So for us, we saw an opportunity of it not only being the fastest growing sport and an underserved market for the athletes, but then also really thinking beyond just management. How could we create more value for the clients? And it takes a special client and a special personality like Conor McGregor. So I was very fortunate to sign him. 10 years ago and, you know, and, and we had a vision and he was very, very bullish about that vision as well.

Let's rewind. Let's rewind to that. So you, uh, your story is kind of the, I'll give you the, the first part very fast. So you're, you play football at UCLA, you end up getting injured, you move into, uh, management side of things. You got, you got some kind of football players as your first clients, and then you branch into MMA and you discover Conor McGregor. Can you tell the story? How did you, How'd you discover Conor? What was, what was his situation like at that time? And what was those kind of the first meeting? Take us back to those days.

Yeah, sure. So I think taking it back to the first days, the early days, really working with guys like Chris Lytle, right? Getting into the business or working with a guy that I got to work with him for one fight and he retired. So then it was being able to sign Michael Bisping, which was a massive opportunity for me. And someone that I'm so proud of, not only as a client but as a friend as well, went on to be the first British champion, first champ, UFC champion from the UK. And, you know, he was a pioneer of mixed martial arts for all the up-and-coming athletes within Europe, you know, Ireland included. So I was very fortunate enough to start to work with Michael and other clients as well earlier in my career. In the UFC and mixed martial arts in particular. And so when I signed Conor, it was when he first came on to the UFC scene, right? He was fighting in the regional promotion in Europe, Cage Warriors, which is still around and he's still a, you know, let's call it a mid-major, if you will. And these are, to some extent, they're professional promotions, but they're feeder programs to the larger promotions, if you will. And he had just signed to the UFC and we were introduced, interestingly enough, like through Facebook. And, you know, at the time it was, he was, you know, looking at signing with one of the agencies in the sport. And I got an opportunity to pitch him and, and coach his coach, John Kavanaugh, as to why I felt that we would be the best fit for him. So you gotta, you know, put your best foot forward and give it a shot and hopefully you win that business. And I was fortunate enough that, you know, we got first opportunity actually to work with him heading into his, you know, his first fight. We were saying, okay, well, let's pause now. Let's talk after this first fight. So he beats Marcus Brimage.

Was that the 50 G's baby?

50 G's baby. Yeah, that's the famous line from that fight. After that, his second fight was his US debut actually against Max Holloway. And we started to work with one another heading into that fight. And so the rest is history. But one of the things, you know, we recognize is not only his athletic ability, but then he had special, special not only talent inside the octagon, but you could tell he was very special and charismatic. He had that it factor that, you know, is, I think it's once in a once in a generation type of an athlete as well, not only from a physical perspective, but a qualitative perspective. And so, you know, the sky was going to be the limit in terms of what we could do together.

And was that— I mean, I've seen all the— there's these older interviews where Conor still has acne, he has no tattoos, and he says like, you know, mark my words, you will see me in the UFC, you will see me as a champion one day. And then coming up, leading up to that Marcus fight, and then I think it was Dennis Silver in Boston, if I remember correctly, like in the early days, you still see that he has some type of star power on camera, but behind the scenes, uh, even at a young age in his early 20s, did you notice that, uh, the confidence and the star power was there just in your normal hanging out sessions?

Yeah, you could definitely see his charisma behind the scenes. And, um, you know, he was, like I said, he was very witty. Very, very confident, but also very engaging. You know, I think one of the things I always tell people is that, you know, majority of people in the world know who Conor McGregor is. And I would argue that most of them never seen him fight. They've actually seen more of his interviews and him talking because, you know, when he talks, you can't take your eyes off it, right? He's just so fun and And whether you love him or hate him, you're watching him, you know? And that's, that's, I think, what makes him special.

Yeah. You finding Conor is kind of like, we've had guys on this podcast that are like, yeah, I discovered Uber. I was like the fifth investor in Uber. Or, you know, like they're early investors in Facebook or something like that, right? It's like a, it's like an angel investment that goes on to become this, this, what do we call it, like a unicorn, right? It's like this billion-dollar brand that you discover at that early age, were, were other people pitching him for business at that time? Because I remember that first Brimage fight, there was like a hype around him. Like even his entrance, people were like really excited about him. And I didn't know who he was at the time. So I don't even know how people were so excited about the guy at that time. So I imagine that, you know, there were other agents trying to win that business at that time. Um, do you have any good fun anecdotes or stories of like your hustle at that time to get him? Or was it like, no, people, it was kind of like an ignored asset. People didn't realize that this was going to be, that he was going to be a big deal. And it really didn't look like it was like this hotly contested thing.

I want to ask you about the Proper Twelve stuff, but before that, so like I grew up watching Entourage and so you see like Ari Emanuel or Ari Gold dealing with like crazy young actors who have money and it's like, you know, drugs and sex and then Ballers, it's like drugs and sex as well. But the difference between, you know, Ballers, what's NFL, but then there's the difference I imagine with UFC fighters where it's, you're not an actor, you're not a player, you're gonna get out there in your underwear and fight to the death in front of millions of people. Can you like tell me a little bit about the difference between managing someone like Conor or Izzy, like these, like, because I imagine them, are they crazy? What's that mindset like on a daily basis? And that mentality, particularly when it comes to business, are they Have you found that you have to hold them back from being so aggressive sometimes, or what's that like with that type of athlete?

Well, first of all, I don't think they're crazy per se. So it's not, you know, because of the profession or the sport that they're in that, that they tend to be maybe a little bit, you know, crazy, so to speak.

Right. I mean, like when I say crazy, I mean like high risk. Well, what I risk—

I think, look, it means depending on the field you're in, it's That's subjective what you think high risk and not. Most people that come to us say, if you're a neurosurgeon, you're going to think the combat sports is super high risk, right? But ultimately, I think every human being is different. There's certainly, there's certainly when you're that competitive, you're going to be driven, you're going to be more aggressive. And I think I see it even in business at the same, at the highest level. There's, there's that chip on the shoulder. There's that edge that that every high-level competitor has, whether it's an athlete in different sports or whether it's a businessman or woman at the highest level of their respective field. So obviously business acumen varies, right? So if you're talking about an institutional investor versus a professional athlete, that varies. But even within the sport, you have athletes that have a very high level of business acumen. Conor's not trained from an institutional perspective. He didn't go get his MBA. He doesn't have that academic background, if you will. Right. But he's a very natural businessman.

What's a story as an example?

Did you guys have like Jameson? We're like, hey, we want to sponsor you. And you were like, dude, fuck this, Connor, let's do our own thing.

He's always had a desire to get into whiskey. It's like he's Irish. It's part of their DNA, right? And his grandfather was a whiskey man. And we always had the idea when we were approached by a sponsor and it was like, Do we go and pursue a sponsorship and take a check, or do we just go and own our own business? And when you study the category and looked at the TAM and you looked at the opportunity, you're like, we could— this is right for disruption. We actually could really come in and do something here. Right. And so that, that's a perfect example of his natural business acumen. Right. Because it's hard to do that, especially at that level. He wasn't making, you know, a ton of money yet up until we got to the Floyd fight, which is, by the way, when we announced our entry into the market. We announced our entry into the whiskey market in our post-fight press conference.

Yeah, I remember he's holding the glass.

We started, though, the process in 2014, and we were doing a lot of research and development and pivoting from different groups. And, and ultimately we found the right, you know, formula, if you will, and the right team, etc. Right. And the rest is history. And that to me takes a lot of, a lot of intelligence for an athlete to do. That's not trained, hasn't had the experience of building a business, and, you know, moreover, the patience, right, to really bet on himself.

How much of your guys' capital did you put up to get it off the ground? And do you remember what your first year sales was?

Yeah, he had another company, right?

I mean, he did Avion, then he did a property with us. He's done Terramana now. He's done the Lolo with Jim Dale. He's a, he's a, he's a G when it comes to experience business, you know?

And when you find people like that, are you doing just like a, like a 30-30-30? Like, you know, you guys all split equity?

So even with something like that, let's say, uh, just to put this in perspective, so the decision to say, well, we could just take a straight sponsorship deal, get a check, make a few Instagram posts and, and, you know, cash that check, um, versus we're going to do the entrepreneurial work and actually build a brand. The payoff difference, I imagine you could tell me if I'm wrong, I think it's probably 100 to 1. Would that be approximate? So like You know, if you just say, okay, over a few years we would have a kind of an alcohol sponsor and we're doing, you know, kind of these scheduled posts with them or commercials with them or whatever it may be. I think it's probably something like 50 to 100x bigger return by doing the work.

Is that— I would say it's a multiple of that. You think a few hundred dollars?

How much would a sponsor should have been?

I mean, I mean, back in that, back at that time, You know, when we first started the process, it would have been like $250,000 or something like that. I would have been a big one. By the time we launched, he probably was in the 7-figure range. Yeah. In terms of sponsor— sponsorship annually, right?

That's like an annual deal.

Annual deal, right?

Yeah, exactly. So I would say, I would say like it was, you know, you could run any analysis, even an NPV, and look at how we won and won big.

You talked about the Mayweather-McGregor thing, how that came to— nobody thought that that was going to happen and then it actually happened and it was kind of amazing. I remember vividly where I was. I remember I was in Australia and I had to get up at a certain time. I was at a bar at like 5 in the morning or something like that to watch that fight. But I also remember the buildup. There was the kind of back and forth, almost flirting on on social media talking trash to each other to try to generate interest. 'Cause I think both guys, Floyd and Conor, probably the two smartest businessmen ever to come through combat sports, and they kind of knew, okay, this is the right dance partner for us to like execute something orders of magnitude bigger than what we could do. And I remember at the time it was seen as almost like the Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg thing today, where it's like, Wow, that'd be crazy if it happened, but there's no way. I mean, just to get all these people, to get them, everyone to agree, seemed impossible. Can you take us back? Like, you know, like I see all these videos of you like hanging out at Conor's house or whatever. And like, you get, you know, the behind the scenes stuff. There had to have been just like a couch conversation where you guys are like, okay, could we do this? How could we do this? What, what was that early days like before it came to fruition?

I mean, can I ask you a quick question about those buys? Yeah. So you said, you said 4 million buys. I'm not, I'm not attacking this strictly about this fight, but when I see pay-per-view numbers, like what the headlines are, I think most of them are complete bullshit. I think that when a fighter says like, for example, I remember Floyd has multiple times said he's earned 9 figures, so $100+ million off of one fight. And I think I've seen Conor say, I think he was just talking shit, but he's like, oh, I'm making this much money off this Cowboy Cerrone fight. I think those are nonsense. And the reason I think they're nonsense is it's almost like a rapper bragging about how much money they have. It's like, dude, you're not, it's part of your brand. And also, no one's incentivized, like Dana or Showtime or HBO, they're not incentivized to like tell the public that, yeah, this dude's full of shit. We gave him $2 million. He didn't earn $20 million off this thing.

Oh, no, let me, let me just—

like, it's not public information.

That's a loaded— because there's certain elements of that, you know, could be hypothetically true. But for example, compensation is not fully reported when you're talking about UFC. Particularly MMA, like, that's not fully reported what the purses really are at the highest level. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's actually more—

it's even that true because it's just what's reported to the commission.

And assuming that they don't have, let's call it, another agreement. So that's not true in terms of pay-per-view. There's speculation. So, for example, Maymac in particular, there was, you know, I think there was rumors that were starting to trickle in that it did over 6 million buys or something. To that extent, you know what I mean? But it landed in like the $4,344 range. And that's that. No, that's actual, right? I mean, ultimately, you know, that's— those are not fudged numbers. And so what you were hearing about what potentially, uh, Conor made and potentially Floyd made on our side, I know it's more true on the Floyd side. I don't know if he divulges who he splits it with or, you know, what that, what that looks like on his side. So I can't comment on, on his, right? But UFC was our partner, so I know what they're— what we're reporting for Connor was Connor's.

What was reported, I think, was 30 to Connor and 100 to Floyd. Was that what was reported?

I don't think so, but maybe. I mean, in terms of what you're talking about, reported to the, the commission or the papers?

No, no journalist ever actually like breaks that down, you know what I mean? So that's what I'm saying, like these numbers are so high and I hear that and I've—

well, it was higher, I think, from for, I think it was certainly higher for Conor that I know. And, and, you know, for Floyd, I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher, just depending on what he did again. Wow.

You really think that $100 million was true?

You're a business guy, so you see what Floyd did in the boxing business where he basically became his own promoter, runs his own ship so that he can take the lion's share of the revenue or the profits that come from an event where like in the past, guys like Mike Tyson and others sort of got screwed because they're out there fighting generating all this demand that they look at 10 years later, they're like, where's all the money? And the promoter has basically enriched themselves in that way. And obviously the UFC is totally different. It's like a league. It works differently. But a guy like Conor is essentially as big of a brand as the USC, UFC. Uh, like, you know, let's say it's debatable. They're in the same, like the same, like air. And if Conor McGregor was to go do a fight on YouTube, pay-per-view or whatever he wanted to do, he could pull the same numbers as a UFC card without the UFC's promotion. Do you think, like, I guess when you see what Floyd did, do you think anybody's ever going to do that with the UFC or in MMA where they're going to become their own promoter and have their own shows?

I think the sport is still young and it's still evolving, right? And while the UFC is to some extent synonymous to league as a promotion, it's still structured to some extent, you know, like prize fighting, right? There's still pay-per-view. And even though there's rankings, sometimes you'll see the rankings are not— it's not true meritocracy because it's still prize fighting and entertainment to some extent, right? And I think that they have come a long way, but they still have a long way to go in terms of how much fighters should earn, should earn. But at the end of the day, too, from a boxing perspective, I think that's why boxing has been on the decline. It's so fragmented, right? And there's, at the end of the day, there's not a true promotion that's stood the test of time. I know Top Rank's been around forever, right? But who do they really have? Matchroom seems to be doing more. Obviously Premier is still around and still PBC still competing, but you see it kind of fragmented, right? Canelo will fight for Matchroom won one for a couple fights, and now he's fighting for PBC for a fight. And the difference is though, I think in boxing, promotions could fight each other, and so they have to agree on that, right? I think in MMA, it's going to continue to evolve, right? You now have the ability— can Conor do that? Of course. I think Conor is one of probably the only person who can carry his own show. It's very difficult to do, right? It's hard to go How many million pay-per-view sellers are there in either sport? Not a lot. You know, it's like, it's, it's not that easy to do. So I think that from a, from a UFC perspective, they've always looked at it as like, look, we're, we're building something that's sustainable and they are correct in that regard. But I think that fighters definitely should have a bigger piece of the revenues as this thing continues to grow, which I think they've come a long way, but they still have a long way to go.

Yeah, I was going to say, the other group that's trying to do their own shows is the kind of Jake Paul, Logan Paul style thing where they're doing these kind of celebrity matches, high interest fights and getting people to buy pay-per-views for that. Seems to honestly be working. I don't know what you think about those guys, but I personally used to be like, oh, kind of wrote them off as just like, kind of like they were like in the Jackass crowd of the YouTube generation or the Vine generation. And then they said they were going to do this boxing thing. Who knows how seriously they'll take it. But honestly, Honestly, they've done a good job of actually building up interest and pulling these events off and being respectable, showing up very respectably and winning several of these fights.

You can't hate on them, man. You can't hate on them. They're putting in the time. Actually, our client Dylan Danis is fighting Logan Paul coming up.

Dylan Danis is your client?

Yeah.

Oh my God. That is so funny.

Are you the genius behind his current marketing strategy? Did you sign off on that?

No, no, no. That's all Dylan.

I thought you might've been his client. There's a famous video where Nate Diaz and Dillon are getting into it and Nate throws a beer on Dillon. And I saw you in the video trying to be like the father in the whole, like, you're like, hey Nate, Dillon, could you guys please walk away? This is not good.

Didn't work out. My kids didn't listen, you know? But no, I, you know, you gotta give those guys credit. I mean, look, I think they're, They're putting in time in their craft. They're going in there and they're not only, you know, taking a shot, risking, you know, I could argue that they're not really doing it against real boxers. That's true. You know, I think they're being more strategic. And but, you know, again, credit has to go to Conor, right? Who created that trend? Who started that? It was Usyk versus Mayweather. And then now, I mean, even if Floyd goes and fights someone else, he doesn't get the same result without it being another two 2 A-side guys facing each other. And while I give all of them credit too, I don't think you've seen this blockbuster event that anybody's been hoping for. So at the end of the day, though, there's a market, though. There's an appetite from a consumer to go look at, you know, me and you, Sean. I don't— I think we may only get 100 people that tune in, but nonetheless, there's a market there. And probably streaming on YouTube, Sam is going to have to pay.

He doesn't get— you underestimate how many people want to see me get my ass whooped.

Likewise, my friend, I think you're right. You're right.

So what are the— they've been begging to get Conor in that. I think that that's the white whale that Jake Paul's chasing. What is the percent chance that a fight between Conor McGregor and Jake Paul ever happens?

I mean, right now Conor's focused on Michael Chandler. I'm saying ever, ever. I can tell you Floyd, Floyd, the rematch is there. Logan Paul wants to fight him. Jake Paul, that's out of the realm of possibilities.

Not zero.

Yeah, it's not zero. It's just not top of mind right now, right?

So you need to take off your sports jacket. You need to have a proper 12. You need to like— I want the non-political answer that you, you, you managers are so good at saying the best of everything.

This is funny. It's like, I wonder if I just wore friggin streetwear and, you know, and dyed my hair, bleached my hair like I used to when I was a young punk rock kid. You know, if everybody would really just hear what I'm saying, this is not bullshit. I'm just telling you the truth. Like, if he's going to fight Michael Chandler next, Right. It's not— and we're not thinking about that, you know what I mean? But ultimately, of course, we know he wants the fight. Of course, we know it's there. And of course, I think if everybody keeps doing their thing, it's going to be a market for it. Right.

So, well, let's talk about the, the biggest of these freak show fights right now is Elon versus Zuck. And it was one of those things that, like, in our world, like, that's, that's never happened in the kind of business and tech world. And then Dana comes out and kind of certifies it. He's like, no, they want it to happen. We're talking to them. We might make it happen.

Which was— yeah, but he always does.

Yeah, well, exactly. It's Dana White, so you never know. Uh, but you know, it was interesting that it got a little bit more heat from that. What's your take on that? And again, same question.

I don't know if Dana would have gone on a limb if he hadn't really talked to both, right? I mean, well, I'm sure he talked to both, but I don't, uh, I don't think that he would have done that, you know. And, and even Zuck training with freaking, you know, a bunch of different fighters— Izzy and Volk and, and Jon Jones— and, and then, uh, Elon bringing in GSP.

And do you believe it'll happen?

And if so, I believe Zuck would be down. Yeah, catchweight, whatever, it doesn't matter. Yes, I agree. Like, I think Zuck is down. Zuck is a— is, is, is truly, you know, training. And regardless of this fight or not, he's in there.

Does that mean you think Elon might not be down? Because that's our theory here on this podcast, is that Elon wants to talk about it.

Look, from the outside looking in and all the information that I have, which is probably less than what you have being in the tech world— you guys have some freaking secret Telegram groups and shit.

Who told you about that?

Dude, for knowing you or like knowing what I think of you, you're probably going to be managing them.

No, I mean, like, hey, I'll, I'll, yeah, I'm definitely going to pursue them, you know. But so long as we get some rights, not just transactional, we got to build something together, you know. But no, but I, I, I think it's up to Elon. I, I truly think it's up to Elon, you know. And I don't know, do you think Dana came out and said if it happened, they probably looked at the numbers though for both X and Threads are like, this is great. Yeah, but Zuck's more serious. Like, no, don't talk about it. I saw those text exchanges and all that kind of stuff that kind of were leaked. And like I said, Zuck's about it. He's not bullshit.

You know, Dana has said if it happens, it would be the biggest fight ever. He thinks it would surpass Floyd Pacquiao. It would surpass Floyd Conor. He thinks it would be that because it's just like uh, you know, the freak of all freak shows in that sense. Like, it crosses over into so many different, like, fan bases or domains. You get all the Combat Sports people, but you'd also get the business people to watch.

I think so. I think so.

And I think it would also be the saddest fight ever.

Yeah, it'd also be really lame to watch.

It was actually— it was, it was actually, it was actually kind of fucked up the way Elon was all about it, and then all of a sudden, like, it's not going to be the UFC, it's going to be charity. Like, wait a second, you can't play along all this fucking time and then and then all of a sudden pull the rug, you know what I mean?

Like, but did you see the video of him curling a 40— or he had like a 20-pound or 40-pound weight at his office and he did a live Twitter where he was— he's like, I'm curling to prepare. It's like, no, dude, I swear to God, if you think doing curls at your desk is how you prepare, you're—

this is not going to be right, man. You know, I didn't see that. That's funny. That's hilarious, dude.

I want to ask— let me ask you about some other slick guys. So basically, a lot of people who don't watch the UFC, they don't know that, uh, so Dana's the front guy, you know, he's doing a lot of the match setting and, uh, he does all the talking and he seems like a wonderful businessman. But the Fertitta brothers interest me most because they were, uh, I think, I think Dana only owned like 4 or 6% of it when it sold, but the Fertitta brothers owned most all of it besides some outside money because they were already wealthy. But they seem like those guys, they don't do a lot of interviews and they're a little bit behind the scenes. They seem like sharks. Have you learned anything interesting from, uh, the two brothers and Dana about business?

Well, so obviously, look, they sold their business now, right? Endeavor ended up, you know, William Morris at the time, they bought it. But I had the pleasure of being able to, you know, deal across from Lorenzo Fertitta on particularly on a couple of clients, particularly Conor, obviously at that level. And they're very savvy businessmen, very, very composed, you know, I, it's not, it's the dynamic when I'm on the opposite side, naturally, it's adversarial a lot of the time, right? And so, you know, at the end of the day, I'm advocating for my clients. So it's, it's, I'm not their best friend, right? It's not like they're going to invite me over for Christmas and, and, but, but we do have, we did have a respectful relationship. And I really, really enjoyed dealing with someone, you know, that, that has been not only successful in our sport and a pioneer in it, but was a super successful businessman in the casino business and other businesses as well. So you learn, you learn from the interactions and the dealings and the negotiations that you're doing. Like, for example, when Mayweather-McGregor happened and we basically got what we were achieving or were striving for from a negotiation, like, Conor and I really, we had that moment when we walked out of Lorenzo's office. We're like, fucking did it. You know, it was like a moment, right?

And so Do you guys like keep a straight face till you get to the parking lot?

Yeah.

Do you get like giddy and start hugging and shit?

Well, in the meeting, in the office, you have the smirk, you know, you don't give it away. Right. And then, yeah, when you get in the car, you celebrate, you know. But yeah, man, I think it's the human shit. I think that's what people don't realize. I mean, it's like it's the same in all sectors, all sports, and even the most composed person that doesn't do any interviews, I'm sure have had those moments in their own, you know, journeys as well. Right.

3 years. And I can tell you, listen, if it's probably printed, then you got to go with that because I can't necessarily comment on the specific numbers, but we're still involved too. It's not. You know, at the end of the day, it's, it's, we, we're still, you know, part of the team. We're still pushing it to grow the brand. We just came out with a new flavor, our Irish apple flavor, which is amazing. Um, you know, dangerously amazing too, because I, you know, you just, it drinks and goes down so easy. Um, but yeah, man, I'm, I'm super proud of that.

Was that like a new level for you wealth-wise? And what I mean, or were you able to make money a little bit along the way?

You know, I think that was a whole nother level, right? That was a whole nother level where you're able to achieve, you know, your, your, your, your, you know, your ultimate goals, right? But ultimately, too, you're, you're, you're proving your concept, you know what I mean? Like, ultimately, like, we're not having to go sell the platform. We're creating liquidity events by creating opportunities, um, left and right, not just for clients. Now we're creating ventures that are, you know, accretive to the platform. We have a smart basketball technology called Hoop. We have, you know, some other ventures in the pipeline that are coming out that are very, very much focused on advocacy for the entire sport and creating something where we're putting our own capital in these things to create opportunities for everybody else, right? And so, and there's other things that we're creating specifically for our clients, right? So, you know, in lieu of of, you know, having the opportunity to invest or, you know, an athlete not, maybe not having the brand equity to go start their own venture, how can we bring them along the ride with us, you know, for the next proper 12, if you will, right?

I always like to ask people this because I remember, you know, when you start out in business, typically you have kind of nothing to your name.

And you've got this literally nothing credit card debt, like exactly nothing.

So you start at zero or usually you go below zero, you dip below zero for a period of time below zero.

You, you eat these shit sandwiches for, in your case, 7 years. In my case, I remember like sort of 8 or 9 years straight of just, uh, like in my case it was just kind of failure, but like in your case, at least you were building it up. Um, and then you finally have the moment where it's kind of like validated, realized, a payday comes in, you get a windfall along the way. And like financially, sure, that's exciting and things change at a logical level, but before it hits the logical level, there's kind of the emotional level of like, What does that feel like? What thoughts go through your head at that time? We had a guy come on the pod. He's like, dude, I used to just every day for the next week, I just drove to the bank and I would just go in the ATM, put my card in and say print receipt because I just wanted to see it. And he's like, I didn't even have anything. James Hong. He's like, I didn't even have anything I wanted to spend it on. He's like, I was just amazed. I was just amazing to look at that because I knew the 7-year or whatever the years that go into. Not, not being there, not having that. And we had other people that are like, you know, oddly numb feeling. I didn't feel anything. And other people are like, you know, I had a conversation with myself. I said, all right, now I'm here. Here's this pivotal conversation I had myself. So I always like to ask people about that moment because I think there's usually something interesting that happens. It's not just like just another day.

I thought you were going to say you had a red panty night. I was waiting for it. That was the—

you said it for me. I did. Classic. Classic line.

And you had two bites of the apple, right? If I remember correctly, like, I think you guys— did you guys sell a portion of the business early on? And I think you sold half of it and then— Yeah. Another— I don't know if it was the half or the rest or another big chunk.

Yeah. Right. Yep.

Was it a hard decision to sell or did you have 600 million reasons?

I mean, it was— I mean, look, any— first of all, it was an amazing time, but always after the fact, you're like, now we still have— we're still part of the business, so we can still keep making a lot of money into the next decade or longer, you know, at the end of the day. Because it's always difficult to think about, oh, woulda, shoulda, coulda, right? But you got to be able to count, you know, the fortunes of it all, you know, and be grounded in that positive reality. It's not a negative thing. You know, it's very easy to always Monday morning quarterback something like, oh, we shouldn't have sold because of this, this and that.

But you have those regrets, which I think is normal, by the way. I think most people who Maybe most. I think who they sell— you all, if you sell it right, you tend to sell early, right? I mean, that tends to happen.

I think the way we structured the deal allows us to really— not only we made a ton of money, but we just continued to make a ton of money. And ultimately, have I had those thoughts? Sure. You always think about it. And because it's for me, it's more so, okay. It's about execution, right? So not only do we execute, but then how's, how are the deal, how's the terms, how's this, how's that? You know, so I'm kind of like constantly watching the film to make sure that I'm learning and growing as an entrepreneur because I'm not resting on my laurels either. I'm not done. Right. And so I'm, I'm still playing the game while you play the game. You got to be able to not only celebrate the victories, but watch the tape back and see where you could have gotten better. Right. That's the only way you're going to be the best at what you do.

So I have a partner who, a business partner who basically, he was already successful before, but his second company, he was about to get a $200 million check for the sale. And it was like one of those like clickbaity websites on Facebook that showed like top 10 lists. And then Facebook changed the algorithm and the sale dropped from $200 million to like $30 million. And it was just a massive issue because of platform risk. And there's a lot of fear of platform risk. Do you view Conor as like your platform risk? Like if he really, 'cause he gets in trouble sometimes, he gets accused of a lot of stuff. Sometimes maybe he actually did do it, sometimes he didn't do it. Do you get nervous about platform risk with Conor of like, shit, if he does something really bad, I'm fucked?

Yeah, well, he's been accused of a lot of things and he's never been, that's the the facts, right? But obviously there's always risk in everything. And I think when you look at, you know, such a, you know, Conor's kind of like an enigma, right? And so there's certainly going to be those that may be averse and not want to do anything. But at the end of the day, whoever gets involved with us understands the McGregor brand, right? And understands inherent risks that potentially come with that. But ultimately, they also look at the track record And that is always going to win the day, right? Because you could make all these claims, accusations, whatever, but ultimately the facts are the facts and the results are the results and the data is the data. So I think when you look at all those things, sum of all parts is why we have a healthy relationship with all of our business partners and we continue to incubate and launch other exciting businesses in and around the Conor brand. For me, he's the biggest. Client. He's also the top 1%, you know, pop culture brand in the world. So it's like, unless I go inside the other people in that small bucket, if you will, he's always going to have, you know, that, that, let's call it, you know, proportionate risk value across my platform. Right. But ultimately, we're also, you know, much more than just one client and we're building something that for me is into the future, right?

Sean, did you see what happened with Barstool? So basically Barstool Sports sold to a betting company, like a—

Penn.

Penn. Yeah. And I don't remember the final sale, $600 million plus Dave made a killing.

I think he got stock, I think, right? A lot of stock.

You can have it. I think that was brilliant. It's a great move for him. And I think he still has Penn stock too. So then the stock goes up and he wins it again. So good for him. Yeah, that, then that's a, that's an interesting sector where we're getting ready to enter into as well. So that's a, I'm interested to see what they do with it now, right? Barstools and see what they end up, who they end up, you know, partnering with to try to get that off the ground.

You probably, I'm guessing you kind of studied other people who had talent like this. Like, I don't know if you're in a group chat with like Scooter Braun and like, you know, John Shahidi or some of these guys that are managing, you know, the, the sort of the big stars, those same top 1%, kind of like people who can move the needle.

John's a, John's a, John's a friend. I don't know Scooter, but John's a friend.

Who's John? What's his last name?

The guy who manages the Nelk Boys now.

Um, oh yeah, yeah, and stuff.

Um, yeah, so he's, he has, he has probably, he has, he has like a dozen or so of some of the top podcasts and personalities, you know. He's, he's a, he's a, he's certainly an entrepreneur I respect.

And he, um, and so you, you kind of studied them a little bit. If somebody was studying you and they see what you're doing with Conor and how you built, like, I'm just gonna name 'em off. So you did the whiskey brand Proper Twelve, you have Netflix documentaries and like entertainment that way. You have Roadhouse, which is like the new movie coming out. You have the August McGregor, the, the suit lines. You have Title, which is like the recovery spray. You have the FAST app, which is like fitness, like app, uh, plus I think like gyms coming or whatever. Like, you know, something like that, like a, a fitness brand that obviously fits.

And we have actually have an event-based competition coming with 3 called 3KO. So that's going to be, you know, think of Spartan Race meets CrossFit Games, you know. Very cool.

So you have that, you have, I think it's like a mobile game that he's in, you get, you do like kind of the celebrity fight with Mayweather. There's all these different things you've done around that person, that brand. And I'm sure some of them worked amazingly and some of them probably were too much work for what they were worth. You just, you learn as you go, right? You're not, I doubt you were the one entrepreneur who just magically had everything right from day one. No way, right? So if somebody was studying you or somebody had, you know, was with the next McGregor, was with another star creator, what would be your kind of like advice to that person? How would you advise them based on your learnings of the last 10 years of trying to figure this out?

How big is the Paradigm team?

It's still boutique. So we're about 15 on the whole co-level, but then every brand co, if you will, uh, has its own respective team, right? Um, and what I would also say is, you know, don't, don't stop innovating, right? Um, don't stop trying to create new opportunities that have to align, right, with your client, right, organically. But you got to make sure you're able to clearly define that What's your criteria?

So like you've gone into these 10 different categories. How do you pick which category to go into?

By the way, did you ever consider just putting his name on it? It's like you have like Jameson or Johnny Walker or Jack Daniel's. Like McGregor's name is so famous. It's interesting.

It's actually taken. It's taken. We did think about that. But actually, there's a— the MacGregor Clan, I think it's a Scotch, if I'm not mistaken. So that, that was certainly considered. We, we also considered Notorious Irish Whiskey at one point. Right. Um, and, and, you know, again, even early, earlier days, there's a couple other names that were floated around.

But no, Proper Twelve's a good name. Proper Twelve's good.

Great name.

Again, what's it mean? Like, the— is it like the 12 districts of Dublin? It's from Dublin Twelve.

So each call it, yeah, borough or city within Dublin is a number. And where he's from is Dublin 12. And so, and proper, I mean, they always say that was a proper night out, you know, like, oh, it was proper good time. And so, you know, Proper Number 12, that just made sense for the brand. And again, after pivoting several groups and finding the right partners, you know, we came up with the brand together.

And Sean and I are big fans of words, you know, like, we'll hear someone say something and we're like, oh man, the language they use was beautiful, that was really good language, whether it's writing or just someone talking. The cool thing about Conor is he's got a beautiful vocabulary and beautiful timing and beautiful phrasing. So he uses wonderful words. And so like, I remember when he was fighting Jose Aldo, he would talk about like, he was like, if this was another time, I would storm your pavilion. And then he like talks about like what he would do to them. And like, he like, you know, the whole red panty night, like he just has like really funny catchy phrases. I guess Trump kind of did this too, where he just like, it was just really catchy stuff. Are you guys ever just shooting the shit and you're like, oh, that's a line, we're gonna have to use that?

Uh, he's very natural. I go back to the acumen. I mean, that is stuff that it's not rehearsed. It's very much stuff that he just comes up with. But we'd be there and he'd say some stuff like, that was hilarious. That's another, that's another McGregorism. You know what I mean?

Like, you're like, put that in the bank.

I have two fan service questions that are around that. Number one, yeah. During the Mayweather press tour, uh, which was just like amazing.

That was, that was so much fun.

But it looked like, because all UFC press tours are the same, you go, you sit, and they ask you questions, and then you react. Whereas that one was like, stand up and give a speech. And it almost looked like Conor was almost ambushed, like, oh, I just got to give a 20-minute improvised speech in front of millions of people right now. And then he kind of did it. Was that an ambush? I always wondered.

He had no idea what the format was going to be like. And Sam, yes, it was exhausting. At the time. But just thinking back to it, every time it kind of comes up from whether it's the annual anniversary, whatever it may be, it was such a great experience, man. And it was like once in a lifetime thing because, you know, Sean, there was no format. So to your point, I don't know if you felt ambushed, but certainly we were like, oh, what?

How is it for this one?

How is it for that one? But the energy of all of them was out of this world. And so I think that they fed off that energy, which gave them the ability to deliver these legendary lines Bounced back and forth.

I remember watching it and it was clear that he was like, wait, there's no fucking questions. I just have to, I just have to go.

Okay.

I'm a, I'm a comedian now. All right. Bet. And he said this line, he goes, you know, they've, they've tried everything. They didn't tell us the format. My microphone doesn't work. They're trying to put me in an uncomfortable situation, but they don't know I thrive in uncomfortable situations. I almost feel like he was giving himself a pep talk during the speech. I, I really love that line. That was, that was great. But I also have another kind of fan service question on almost the other side of the coin. So as you can tell, me and Sam, both fans of you, of the UFC, of Conor. Like, we really, you know, take a lot of inspiration from some of the— you know, it's just a badass thing to go out there and just fight and put yourself on the line like that every single time. There's something to be admired of that for sure. And I think Conor came in with a very— like, at the beginning, how could you hate the guy? Like, he was bold. He came from nowhere. He was like, you know, this guy who was like an apprentice plumber. And then was like all of a sudden beating everybody exactly this way he said he would. His fighting style was electric. Like, there was nothing to dislike about the guy, I thought, on the, on the come up. Uh, I'm sure some people did, but like the majority of fans, I think, were, were on the come up, were just like, this guy's incredible. And then there's sort of almost like a heel turn now where, um, I know a lot of people who I watch fights with, they sort of feel like he's kind of jumped the shark. Like, oh, you know, now he's this like like, first of all, he's like super jacked now in this huge way. He's like more of a boxer. He hasn't fought in a long time. You know, he talks trash. Maybe he's crossing the line too much. Oh, he's getting in trouble. Like, there's all these things that honestly, like, I know he's your client and he's your friend and you're probably never going to say a bad word about him, but I think there are some fair criticisms that like, you know, it's understandable why somebody who was a super fan might now feel like, ah, you know, I can't really, you know, get behind everything that I'm seeing here. Do you think about that at all? And do you, I guess like, what's your reaction to that? I don't really know how to phrase the question, but I feel like you're one of the few people on earth who would have an opinion about this that I would really care to hear.

I mean, look, it's just like you are engaged with these conversations naturally. I'm going to hear everything right from people around me and, you know, whether it's my friends or there's family. And ultimately what I'll say is this, like, You know, everybody's entitled to their own opinion. I know who the person is, and obviously I do have an intimate relationship. It's something that's more than just transactional. It's more than just a client, a business partner, someone that I'm, I'm loyal to and has been loyal to me. And so at the end of the day, you know, I know that history, once it's done being written, will be interpreted by everybody differently. He's definitely not perfect. He's definitely made mistakes. But a lot of the criticism, too, is subjective. It's based on where you stand on what you believe in or what you want to see, etc. But A, never been legally— all those accusations have not been legally found to be true, right? B, he was the cleanest and most tested athlete before he got out of the USADA pool. And when he returns to fighting, he's going to do it the right way and everything's going to be legal. So everybody can say what they want to say. There's nothing that was done wrong, right? And so he's, he's constantly being vilified because ultimately the stuff that they loved him for, he still does. Still outspoken, still says what's on top of his mind. But maybe because he has the riches now and it's not the rags anymore, sometimes we try to tear some people down. I don't know why. I can't tell you, right? But ultimately I do know proof's in the pudding. He has to continue to go out there and show that he could continue to evolve, be the best version of himself, not just athletically, but as a human being as well. And ultimately, that's on him to do. And I can't do that for him. You can't do that for him. But criticism is going to come. And when you're, when you're in the public eye, you got to be ready to take it on. And at the end of the day, heavy is the head that wears the crown. You can't just want the good and not take the bad with it. So ultimately, that's something that we constantly talk about, something that I know he says, I say to him. We talk about, he understands that, but it doesn't make it easy. It doesn't make it easy because ultimately it's like, you know, you know, you talk about that, the aha moment. And I don't know how many entrepreneurs you've had on this podcast, but when they have that big moment, they don't need to be seen by everybody. They're probably enjoying it with nobody watching them. Or if they go somewhere, nobody really recognizing who they are, right? Myself included. So ultimately, It's very different. And, um, that doesn't, you know, essentially absolve him of the responsibility that he has to take upon himself in certain instances. But most, more importantly, it makes me understand the pressure is real, not only to win and succeed, but on another level, to live your life so visibly for everybody to just critique every little thing. In today's world, man, everybody has an opinion. You know, you guys, before you met me, you thought I was a square suit because of how I appeared visibly to you. Without ever talking to me before, right? So it's like very easy to fast judgment based on whatever your belief system is, how you were raised, your experiences with someone that looked like me, whatever it may be, or your opinions of Asians just because you watched Entourage and Ballers. But I can't change that ultimately, right? And so when you live in today's world like that, for everybody to critique, man, it's going to come with not just the good, but the bad and the ugly as well. And you got to deal with it.

I like the fan questions. You know, this is, it's fun. We've had Ariel Hawane on here. You know, we've become friendly with Ben Askren. I think we've talked to Mike Bisping. We talked to a bunch of folks. It's, you know, Sean and I are super fans, so it's always fun to like get like the insider.

How many fights have you guys been to in person?

I've only been to 3 or 4.

You've been to those?

I think there's, I, the in-person event is definitely like the best in-person sporting event. But in my opinion, if you're like a nerd and a true fan fan, it's so much better to hear the commentary and to see it on, on, uh, and just like to see like the replay of the Sean O'Malley, uh, knockout on Saturday, like it was really awesome to be able to like see it close up.

There is one challenge with UFC, which is that the cage and the cameraman on every post of the cage does kind of screw up the viewing experience depending on where you're at. Like I'm sure if you're right next to— right ringside, it maybe you don't have that issue. But like we went to one event at the, the Vegas place, uh, the one where Masvidal kneeed Askren into the next realm. And the guy— I saw it, but the guy next to me literally couldn't even see the thing. He missed the moment because it was like a split. It was like in the first 5 seconds of the fight. And secondly, just because of the cage, if you go to a football game or a basketball game, it's open field. It's very easy to see what's going on, whereas you're almost watching on the jumbotron.

Well, it's interesting. First of all, I think Look, there are pros and cons to both your points. The energy of a big fight is something else. It's electric. I mean, just the walkouts and the crowd and you feel it and then you hear the thuds and, you know, it's like, it's, it's pretty, pretty amazing.

I was at Jorge and Nate and it was like spectacular, right? But it just, it's just nice to be able to like, you got to go home and watch it again.

Yeah. Yeah. But then from a view perspective, to your point, unless you're like the first few rows of the floor. It's actually that the, the, the mid-low riser, which is the perfect view because you're looking into the octagon, but you're still really fairly close. And I think that's the best view live, right? But nonetheless, no matter where your seats are, I think for big, big, big events, you— the electricity of that place is something else, you know?

So what's going to happen? Like, I'm following this whole circus with Dillon Danis and Logan. I've, I've never even seen Dillon Danis train. I went and watched his two Bellator fights, but that was like years ago. What's gonna happen? Like, I don't know, I've never even seen him spar or anything on like leading up videos. What's gonna happen, uh, on that? When's that? August? It's August 14th.

Logan is, is obviously has a, uh, uh, a leg up having, you know, boxed before, right?

Yeah, but that was years ago.

I think he's bigger.

No, listen, listen, I get it. You know, the fight's actually scheduled October 14th, but, but, oh, October 14th has made all the necessary, necessary adjustments to his life, to his preparation. But this is his boxing debut, so he has to go in there and really prove it right now. I could tell you the banter that's going back and forth. I mean, you know, he's confident in his abilities and he's definitely putting in the work. So ultimately, you don't, you don't make You know, you don't take that position with the banter that he's doing if you're not going in there with some level of confidence in yourself. Right. So, and I'm sure it's given Logan a little bit more training for it. Right. Because ultimately it's personal now, I would imagine. Right.

Oh, yeah. Not even Conor, you know, king of trash talk. Conor wouldn't even— he never even went that far to talk about family. I don't like that he's talking about family, but I like it in the sense of like, I'm going to stare at it.

You know what I mean?

I'm a kid on the internet and I think it's funny too, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Like it's too far, but at the same time I'm like, but it's there. You know what I mean? I'm watching that.

Listen, I think what's interesting is the, you know, love it or hate it, the engagement for that is through the roof and, you know, it should help sell the fight and more importantly, like it's about now performing, right? Because ultimately you can talk all you want. Now you got to go in there and perform, but he's made all adjustments to his life personally, professionally, which, which I'm very proud of him for doing, that will give him that, that, that high chance of winning this. I think he's going to impress and shock a lot of people. People are not giving him enough credit. And I think when he goes in there, it's, it's his time to shine. Now he's putting— he's going to put— he's going to basically put his money where his mouth is because the mouth is getting ready, is going to make people want to watch him, love him or hate him.

Well, you're, you're kind of implying you're like, well, it doesn't matter unless he loses. And I kind of disagree. I think, I think he's already won whether he loses or— or not. Like, he's already kind of like, from where he was starting to where he is now, like, you know, he's already gotten to the— it'll be okay.

He'll—

even if he gets knocked out right away, he'll probably be better off than where he was.

Oh, this is a great opportunity for him. No doubt. No doubt.

Thanks for doing this, man. Uh, where should people follow you if they want to get more?

Just, uh, my first and last name, @Audiotar. Twitter, Instagram, Threads, um, X. Sorry. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, @AudientarX, @AudientarThreads, @Audientar Instagram. I think one of three still remain. All right, Audie, thanks for doing this, man. All right, gents. Sean, Sam, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

And that's the pod.