Reed Duchscher: Inside Feastables, Night Media and Niche Creator Businesses

We'll bleep out every mention, um, because this is the zero clout podcast, zero clout chasing podcast. And, uh, we have a no clout policy and we did not, we did not want to do that.

Wait, but do we have to use his face on a thumbnail?

No, we're going to blur it out.

I think we have to put like his face and then Reed's face next to it and blur out Reed's face and the thumbnail's like the man behind the scenes or something ridiculous.

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I put my all in it like no days off. On the road, let's travel.

All right, what's up? We got Reed from Night Media. He's famous for managing a bunch of awesome YouTubers, including one huge YouTuber, probably the biggest YouTuber in the world. But you know what? Every interview is just people asking him about this other guy. I find that to be a little distasteful, a little disrespectful, and very much clout chasey. And I just, you know, me and Sam, we were texting this morning and we just said, you know what, he's coming on today. We're not saying you could bleep that out. We're not saying that name. You know, let's just have a good conversation with this guy and not chase the clout, which is very hard. It's very hard to do because, you know, you get those clicks when you do it, but we're not going to do it. So that's this episode. We're going to talk to him about his agency. Different creator businesses. So how creators are building these like often multi-hundred million dollar businesses like Logan Paul's Prime and other businesses like that. So good, good conversation there. But we also have a second announcement. And the second announcement is that it is producer Ben's last day, last day producing an episode. This is it. This is your, your Michael Jordan shot against the Jazz. Will there be a Wizards comeback? I don't know, but this might be your walk-off. All right, here's the rules. You can't say anything about next chapter or adventure. I don't want to hear that. And you can't generically say you learned so much. If you say you learned so much, you better tell us exactly what you learned. All right, those are the rules for this speech.

Okay, great. So the next thing for me is basically focusing on how to take over the world, getting the podcast as big as possible. Speaking of like things I learned when I was here, I think, um, people talk a lot about focus, right? And focus is maybe easier when things are not going well, because if focus is about saying no, the world is like saying no to you. But when things start going well, all of a sudden the world is like saying yes to you. You have all these opportunities, right? And, uh, so that was, I think, one of the Things that happened to me early on when I came on My First Million, all these people were like, oh, Ben Wilson, the new hot thing. Do you want to try this?

You want to do this?

What about YouTube? We should make some shorts.

You want to do TikToks?

And I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I want to do like all these things. Right. And so I had all these kind of half-finished projects that ended up not going anywhere because I was maybe a little too dispersed in my attention. So now it's like, no, no, no, just let's get the podcast to be one of the best podcasts in the world. That's all I'm focusing on for the next year. And then we'll see what happens after that.

There's nothing better quitting your job when you have twins, let alone even one baby. What kind of responsible Mormon are you? I mean, well, how, what kind of decision was this? Reckless at best.

Well, I mean, it's, it's not like I'm starting from zero, right? It's not like I have an idea for a podcast. Luckily, you guys have put me in a position where the podcast is doing pretty well right now. So even if I have a bad year, And it doesn't grow that much, I'll be fine. And if it goes really well, then things will be great.

So it's a little bit of a risk, but not an existential risk.

And do you have a, I don't know, a message to the fans? Where do you, how do you want to leave us here? Where do you want to go with this?

So obviously the first message is go follow How to Take Over the World wherever you get your podcasts.

You'll love it.

I guess the most important thing is thank you guys. My life changed. Uh, however long, a year and a half ago when, uh, when you guys brought me on the show and I called it the ride of a lifetime, but really like I didn't know if I would be able to make a living as a creator before you guys brought me on here. Now, now I know that I can do that at least in some capacity. And so my life has completely changed. So, so thank you. This has been amazing. Uh, and I've loved doing it and, uh, to everyone who has like supported me, been such a fan, cheered for me. On the podcast. Like, thank you to you guys, you listeners as well. It's meant a ton and I've loved it. So I guess that's the last thing. I'm just very, very grateful for this opportunity I've had.

The reason I didn't like celebrate you leaving, because I'm like, you're not really going anywhere. You'll be around. You're just going to be unemployed for a little while and hopefully it works out, but I'm sure it will be. And I'm happy you kind of came in our lives. It's fun having you around. We're hiring for a producer, by the way.

Speaking of, we sort of need a producer now.

Yeah, uh, so we're using one of, uh, Sean's Filipino assistants for a little while, but I don't know if that's gonna work out.

Uh, my mom is trying to download Audacity this morning, so we'll see what we can do.

Yeah, so we need a producer. But yeah, Ben, uh, we love you and thank you for everything you did. You, uh, you were mostly decent at a handful of things.

I was like, this was the ride of a year and a half, I gotta tell you. Oh yeah.

It was a leisure walk, uh, but it was fine enough. Uh, no, Ben, you're amazing. Uh, I, I still listen to all the pods, so that's how I know that, uh, it's a good podcast.

I'm glad you're doing this because we need more episodes. Uh, like, if you go, I've listened to all the episodes, I just need more episodes. So this is good. I'm glad you're doing this. Um, thank you so much for everything that you've done. You've brought a lot of, uh, I don't know, good support and good energy to, to what we do. We make it very easy for me and Sam because we just get to show up, perform, and then not think about it after. Like, as soon as we hit done, me and Sam don't really have to think about anything. And, uh, that's because of you and a bunch of other people behind the scenes. And so, uh, thanks for everything you've done, man. And we will all go in solidarity, the gentleman's agreement today. You don't subscribe to us. You go subscribe to How to Take Over the World. Fantastic podcast. It basically talks about, I don't know, great conquerors and people who achieved greatness and great things. Ben goes and reads like 50 books and then just summarizes it into one awesome podcast story, 1 hour, so that you don't have to go read all those books and you get the story from him. So it's an amazing, amazing pod. Go, go subscribe.

Thanks, Ben. Talk soon. We're live now.

I was just—

Reid, I went and listened to a bunch of your interviews. I did the, um, I forget the guy's name. I like him a lot. The financial YouTuber in Vegas.

Um, and then I watched, uh, Graham Stephan.

Yeah. Graham Stephan. And then I watched, uh, Samir and Colin. And then a few others that you did, including your channel. And I was like, Sean, what if we just don't say the word the whole time? Because he's great. But I know, I've learned a bit about it. Let's just not mention it once.

It's a bad business decision. Not going to get the views. You're not going to get the clicks. You're not going to get all that stuff. But I don't really care. In fact, actually, it's a great business decision to not be chasing the algorithm. So I say we just talk about whatever was actually, whatever's actually interesting. I think it might be no bleep. So, um, yeah, I think we might be able to go the whole episode without it.

Let's try. It's only up to you guys. The Colin and Samir videos like took off. I think we, we'd expected it to do well. I don't think I expected it to get whatever it's on, 4.7 million views. But yeah.

You're like, who's counting? As accurate as of today, but who's counting?

Is it accurate?

Yeah, that's, that's pretty much the exact number.

How do you, how do you describe yourself? You're the founder of Knight Media, but Knight Media has a studio division. You have Knight Capital, I believe you have. I mean, Knight Media in itself, it's fairly simple. It's just like an Endeavor or one of these other agencies, but it's a different genre. But how do you, how do you kind of like describe what you do?

I think it's great because talent manager seems to be a horrible business from what I can tell. I've met a few talent managers and basically you're either talent poor, in which case your business sucks, or you get talent rich, but then your business is always hanging on a thread of this one whale or two whale relationship. And even then, um, the value cap— you might create a lot of value, but the value capture is fairly small, um, compared to what you're doing now where you got this investing vehicle and you got, you got all these other components. You said studio making shows for streaming. What have you guys made? Have you guys made anything that's come out?

We did a lot of stuff early on with YouTube Originals, and that was kind of the emphasis of like why we wanted to get into it, because Netflix and HBO and Hulu and all these places started to ask us to make shows with them. And so, you know, Creator Games and some of the other things that we did with YouTube Originals led us into what we're developing now, which I don't know if I can technically say anything about what's coming out. I'll just say there's like, there's cameras around constantly as well, but Yeah, we have a few things like within scripted, one within non-scripted, and then working on a few like different docu, menary type things right now. So we'll have like a, I think a pretty decent slate by next year. We'll see how the writer's strike and everything plays itself out. I think that one's been a little interesting for us to get used to, but yeah, we'll have a bunch of different things like coming out in, what is it, summer of 2023. So sometime in early 2024.

Is the agency business— Sean was, he was joking, but he's being serious in that it's a bad business. Is that actually a bad business? Because when I would like, I mean, I don't, I'm totally outside of Hollywood. When I see like Ari Emanuel, I'm like, it looks like your cash, his personal cash flow was pretty decent on the rise versus a lot of like startups. You know, you're, you're, you're kind of in poverty until you have a, some type of a liquid event. It seems like you guys have some type of—

Well, let's, let's explain the structure, right? So, so what is the, What is the structure of a talent agency? So, uh, first you basically, you recruit talent, you say, okay, uh, I'm going to help you with the business side of your operations or get you brand deals or get you things that you want. Now, in the world of YouTube, are those exclusive or non-exclusive? Like, for example, for an NBA player, their manager, their agent is their exclusive representative, or they could fire them. But like, no, you can't have multiple people bringing them deals. It all has to go through that person. They get a cut of everything. So is it usually exclusive or non-exclusive when it comes to YouTube?

So that kind of proves the point, right? Like if a business has to be a means to an end, it's probably in itself not the best business to stay at. You mentioned a couple of those. Those sound like pretty cool businesses. So Maverick Carter is LeBron's longtime friend. I think high school. I think he's, is he one of part of the high school crew for LeBron or did he come a little later? I think one of them came later.

I think he was, I don't know the full story. I think Rich Paul was, was, came, came later after high school. I think Mav was actually a high school friend and became his manager. And they went on to, you know, now have a production company and a few other things.

That seems like one of the few times that would work out well, by the way, like your high school buddy, like taking the reins. So good for them.

And, um, and so they have a, they have a company that does, you know, basically production and maybe investing because I think they own a bunch of pizza, a bunch of like pizza chains and other things like that. So they do investing, they do production. You mentioned Scooter Braun and his business. And so what, what is, what is his business? Is that like That sounds like that might be a fantastic business. What is it?

Well, it started off, I mean, everyone knows the story probably that he met Justin or found Justin on YouTube when he was really young, reached out, you know, the rest is kind of history there. But he ended up building a music management company that was really like, I think that the cash cow of that business was more touring, right? With Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, some of the other people. And then he sold it to Hive about, I want to say a year ago or 18 months ago. And they started Either buying other management companies, they're buying music catalogs. They're doing a lot of different things right now. And he did build quite a few things with some of the talent. I know Justin and him built, I can't remember what the clothing business is. And there were some other like auxiliary businesses that came out of Ithaca. And they also did a lot of investing, a lot of venture investing. And so I—

Yeah. Well, there's also no backend deals. Like I said earlier, where, you know, Brillstein or some management company in Hollywood maybe helped launch It's Always Sunny, and now they have these residual checks coming in every single month or every single year. That also doesn't exist in the digital space. And so we had to figure out what that packaging business was for us. And we ultimately landed on, we think it's business building. Like we think some of the biggest outcomes for celebrities over the last decade have been through products, right? Beats by Dre, probably the best example of something. I mean, like Vitaminwater was another one where it's like athletes and different people had equity in those businesses. So we think our packaging business is essentially this business building, which we call Knight Labs, which a lot of different things have come out of now. But yeah, the management company has then allowed us to build these businesses with creators where we take equity. And we think that like that business is much more interesting long-term than just continuing to stack a management business, which some of these companies do very well. And you know, they're 30, 40, 50 million EBITDA businesses a year. I think they're now trying to figure out like, what do we either build on top of this big cash-generating business, or do we just keep doing it because the partners every single year are making 3, 4, $5 million a year?

Do you, of your, of just the Knight Media, Knight Studios, of your wholly owned thing, how many staff do you have at the moment?

I believe we're just over 60, so 63 full-time within the Knight ecosystem right now. And some of the teams are relatively lean. I would say our ventures team is lean. It's like 3 people. Our studio team is still, and that's like our venture studio is relatively lean with about 6. And the majority of the company is talent managers and then individual like pod systems where a talent manager will have a junior manager, multiple coordinators, maybe an assistant under that pod. And then that pod will represent anywhere between, I would say, 5 to 7 creators on average.

And are you managing someone as well as running the 60-person operation?

I just managed— that happened about 2 years ago, 2 to 3 years ago, where I was like, this is taking up way too much of my time. And also it's like, it's also the best use of my time. And this was really like when we had started Feastables was an idea. We were, I was, you know, helping him produce creator games. There's just a lot going on while he was also growing, doing multi-language, all these other things. And so that's when I like fully just like kind of rededicated my time to everything that was going on on his end.

So you're able to get your cut from managing him as well as from owning the 60-person company. So in that regard, it seems like things are pretty good even though you want to go bigger.

We're a management company, so yeah, things I think are always a little hectic and most of my focus right now is on Feastables. I think you guys have, I'm sure you've seen the chocolate bars. That to us is like, and I are probably focusing the majority of our energy on that business right now just because it's growing so quickly and you know, we just launched in the UK. We have other global launches that we want to do this year and it's just building into 2024. And so I knew this would eventually happen where you represent a creator and then the business that you're starting becomes the big opportunity that you really want to chase. And we think Feastables is really turning into that. And so I've directed a lot of my energy toward that business. And it's like slowly, slowly consuming my life at the moment.

Before you started Night Media, What interested you? What were you going to start instead of that?

Well, I grew up watching Jerry Maguire, probably like everyone else. And so I wanted to be a sports agent. Like I wanted to represent Rod Tidwell. Like I wanted to be that like bigger than life, you know, agent representing an NFL football player. And so that's what I wanted to do. And I knew that like, because I played football in college and freshman year of college, I realized that guys are built different. I, one, couldn't run a 4.3. I wasn't a 225-pound wide receiver that was 5'3" or 6'5". And so I knew like playing in the NFL was going to be very, very difficult, just seeing that the level of high school to Division I football that I was at. And so, you know, I started seeing that a lot of the players that I was playing with were going to the NFL. Some of them were getting drafted, some of them were going to have like NFL careers that lasted 10 years. And so I positioned myself to, to be a representative for those players, and that's really what I wanted to do. And then stumbled upon YouTube in 2013 and kind of just became obsessed with it. Uh, and in college I didn't watch YouTube, like I was so focused on football, didn't really watch anything on the internet. Um, and that changed the trajectory of my whole career.

I saw this, uh, t-shirt on Instagram yesterday. It said creatives are the new athletes, and somebody was wearing that. And, uh, I thought to myself, that's kind of a lame t-shirt, but I see where they're coming from. Uh, you know, I, I, I get what they're saying. You know, the— I don't know if you've seen, Sam, these, uh, these deals that creators are from Twitch are signing with Kick. What's Kick?

I've heard you talk about it. What is it? It's just a Twitch alternative?

So Kick is basically a Twitch alternative, but the, the kind of the interesting part is it started by this gambling company Stake, So we've talked about Stake before, remember? It's this company that just absolutely prints cash. And one of the main ways, the main way that Stake was growing, or one of the best growth mechanisms was they would pay streamers or give streamers money to gamble on Stake live on stream. And so people got to see.

Didn't they give Drake like a jet?

Yeah, they gave Drake like $20 million and whatever.

But the issue was you couldn't do it in America, right? So a lot of the streamers and they would have to go to Mexico or Canada. And it's still very much like that. You can't do it in America.

Yeah, you got to like get on a boat, go to international waters and start your stream.

Basically, yeah. And a lot of the guys were doing this in Mexico. And so now Kick basically came in, they started Kick as like a distribution, like top of funnel on top of this gambling business, which who knows if it's going to be legal in the US in 2 to 3 years. They actually have Stake.US. That you can play in America. It's just a lot of the games that you have on Stake.com are not there. But yeah, a lot of controversy on, on this topic because Twitch banned it and that's why Kick started is because Twitch banned all gambling on their website.

It's like there's these stories sometimes in business where it's like, like I have a buddy who's like this. The guys who bought Milk Road, they own— one of them started this thing called Jamf. JM Bullion, which is like a gold, it's the biggest website for buying and selling gold online. And I was like, how'd you do it? What's the origin story? And he's telling me the origin story. And really when he started, he was just trying to be a lead gen for, um, like somebody else would fulfill the orders. He didn't have any gold inventory. He wasn't shipping anything. He was like, dude, I'm an affiliate marketer. I just, I get the lead from Google. Somebody places the order. I go tell the, the, the company who actually does this thing to go sell it. To go send it to him. And what happened was that they were, they were kind of yanking him around, changing the rates, and eventually they just cut him off. And he's like, oh my God, they just killed my business. Like, they don't want my customers. Like, what do I do? He's like, well, either I take this zero or I create the whole, like, distribute, I create the whole supply chain myself. I basically go, I get the physical inventory, I get the warehouses, and we start shipping this ourselves. That's what they did. They ended up becoming bigger than the other company. And I think they bought them along the way. They bought that other company that had rejected them and like went on to become the number one site for this. And it's kind of the same, um, the same thing that you're talking about here with like Kik was using Twitch as like a distribution platform. And then when it didn't work, they're like, all right, we'll have to make our own Twitch, which is kind of like a huge endeavor. But what they're doing is they're giving streamers these contracts that, um, I kicked the tires on this to figure out if it was real because they gave xQc, who's one of the top Twitch streamers, like a reported 2-year, $100 million contract.

What?

Will this stake a bunch of customers, or is this how new is the website? Because kick.com, according to SimilarWeb, has like 150 million monthly uniques already.

Yeah. So this has been going for how long?

Like 6 to 8 months, maybe?

Yeah. Like within this year, basically, they've been, they've been doing this.

And how did they get that much traffic that fast? I mean, that's one of the faster growing websites out there.

But do they— how'd they find it? How'd they finance this entire thing? I thought, Sean, that we had talked about these guys. Was it Wasn't the founder of Stake, is it like a 28 or back then we, I think we were talking about a year ago, it was like a 26-year-old guy who bought like a $50 million mansion in Australia. Are the, is it still like a bunch of young guys doing this without financing?

I mean, not without financing. The financing is Stake.

I mean, outside financing.

That's insane. Reed, I imagine you've talked to these, you know these Stake guys well. Is this like a Sam Bankman-Fried type of company where they're, or an FTX company where they're just like a bunch of crazy young kids? Or is this like a dialed-in thing? What are these guys like?

I don't know them well enough, honestly, to know if it's like going to become a problem. I would say that from my conversations with them, they seem like they have this thing under control. It's generating a lot of cash. FTX thing, the company wasn't generating any cash when Bitcoin went down. It was like just completely fell apart.

But I don't mean is it a scam, but I mean like young people just being wild, you know, like imagine a 27-year-old making $800 million dividend. Just like a wild child type of setup?

I haven't seen that from them, but it seems like they're a little bit more laid back in Australia, don't really communicate with a lot of people. So I haven't seen that behavior. I mean, that could change. I'm just— I, and I know way too much about the deal structures and everything else and how this stuff works, but I would— I'm pretty confident in Kik over at least the next couple of years. We'll see where this goes if they continue to want to do that business. I would imagine Stake is going to just continue to get so big that maybe KICK eventually becomes a distraction. I don't know, but I would say they'll double down on Stake.us over the next like 18 months as like states open up and allow them to start doing this.

That's insane.

There was also a secondary business called Roobet as well that was essentially the Stake.com competitor. I'm not 100% sure what happened to Roobet, but it's still around. And so there is other businesses like Stake. Stake just completely won. Because they were able to sign the biggest creators like Train. They signed Drake, which you guys said. So at the moment it's a runaway train. They're kind of taking all the market share.

In one of your other podcasts, you'd mentioned how you're like, well, a lot of creators, they think, well, I have an audience, I'm going to launch this product. And you're like, well, that can work for a couple months, but if you do a good job, this turns into a proper company. And the real challenge, you were saying, the real challenge that I'm in is finding amazing executives to actually run the companies and build these into real companies. You said for Feastables, I think you said you had the president of RXBAR to come and be the CEO for the burger business or the restaurant business. You partnered with someone and you also, it sounds like, had a president or CEO of that company. What type of deals are you striking with some of these CEOs to make it worth their while to, to, to do this?

Yeah, thankfully a lot of them realize the opportunity when they come into these businesses. They know that there's an unfair advantage in go-to-market because the creator has has hopefully built this massive platform already that gives them instant distribution and just consumers. And so a lot of the people that we interview for CEOs are actually incredibly excited about the opportunity and are willing to leave their big job at PepsiCo or wherever that is. And so how the deals are really structured is very similar to any other business. You have like the cash basis that you're paying them, and then you also negotiate some piece of equity over like a 4-year vesting schedule. And so We've had a lot of success doing that, but for the most part, we usually don't have to explain the competitive advantage to the business. Like when we start meeting these individuals, they already know, they've seen it, they saw it with Prime, they're seeing it with Feastables, they've seen it with Happy Dad. A lot of the individuals that we're interviewing already know, and so it makes it a little bit easier for us to get them to leave that specific job. But it's structured very similar to like what a CEO would potentially make if they came in and ran a startup.

And are you funding the company with a bit?

We fund up to a certain amount.

What's that amount usually?

It honestly depends on the business. I would say it falls anywhere between the $250,000 on the low end, $1 million on the high end.

So Feastables, you fund that, that's how, with just $1 million, you think?

Let's talk a little bit about Prime. So Prime seems to be just taking over. Really, really impressive. I don't know how much we've talked about it on here before, but can you just explain what's going on with Prime in a way that would, for somebody who's kind of out of the loop or maybe, you know, vaguely heard of it, but doesn't really truly appreciate like the extent it's what it's doing.

I think he said, if I remember correctly, Sean, we talked about it, it might have been 6 months ago. I think he said like $200 million for the year. Is that right?

Yeah, that's the number. That's one number we had heard. But $45 million obviously would put them on a totally different trajectory than that. So yeah, it appears to be just an absolute monster. Um, how did—

who's the—

who's Logan Paul's manager? Who's, who's his rep?

His name's Jeff. He's, he's on the podcast. He's been his same manager for a long time. Uh, Logan talks about him quite a bit. And so if you, if you watch some of Logan's older videos too, he would periodically show up. And so they've been together for a long time and Jeff put together that deal and it's been incredibly successful.. We'll see how it ends up. I don't know. I would imagine they're going to want to continue to do this thing for another couple of years and then probably sell it.

And those guys who created the drink, you said they created Alani Nu, but that wasn't that big. Like it seemed, I remember when Prime first came out, I was like, who are these guys? And it's, I think it's two dudes, right? Who are the founders of that? Um, and they didn't really have a huge hit before that. How did they even secure that deal? And why, why did they? Partner with them over some more established thing?

Do you know? I honestly don't know. I've never had that conversation with Jeff of why partner with this company instead of doing it yourself. I think I would imagine what happened was this company presented them with the opportunity and it was something that really resonated with Logan. And then I remember the story of him saying he called KSI and tried to get him on board, which he did. And so it probably is just Right place, right time. Logan was ready to lean into something else. And Logan's on a lot of different business ventures over the last 5 years. I mean, this one obviously is far and beyond the most successful, but I, again, I would imagine right place, right time. They like the product, like the, got along with the individuals who are operating the business.

And the partnering with KSI, were they just actually friends the whole time and the whole boxing thing was just, you know, just a sort of frenemies thing or like, because that's kind of a genius move, right? Like you kind of have to give credit to be like, you know what will make this even bigger? Because normally, let's say you're one of the biggest YouTubers, those people tend to have like a bit of an ego. I am distribution. I don't need anybody else to do this. I don't need to split the pie, especially with my enemy. So that's kind of interesting. Well, what's going on there?

No, totally. No, they did not like each other. The boxing beef was real. They were definitely enemies. And from my understanding of the story, and I've only heard Logan's side of this, I haven't heard KSI speak about it. It took a lot of convincing for Logan to get KSI on board because there was still a lot of animosity between the relationship there. I mean, a lot of stuff was said, a lot of personal things were said about girlfriends and parents, and I mean, it was a very personal beef that went on in this YouTube space for a while. And so I think that's why it was so surprising when those two came together to launch Prime, because it was the last two individuals you would have ever thought to partner together on a hydration brand.

He said my Pokémon was a PSA 8. It was, it got ugly. Yeah. Yeah.

But now it's like, for us, it's, it's been helpful because, you know, we, uh, they launched in Australia and it went incredibly well for them. They launched in the UK, it went very well. And so Feastable is like, we're probably 6 to 8 months behind because they, you know, had a product and launched a lot sooner than we did, but it's allowed us to then go into those conversations in Australia, UK, Southeast Asia, where the retailers have already had massive success with Prime, where it's a much easier conversation for us to explain to them why they should take Feastables, where I think if we were the first ones coming into the industry, like into Woolies in Australia, probably a little harder conversation pre-Prime.

And that Prime seems like an amazing category. Like, that to me, the drink, the hydration drink, water, basically, like fancy water, is a better category than chocolate bars. How do you think about categories that you're going to go into? Do you think that's a better category? And also, how do you choose what category to get to? You could basically promote anything, dude.

When we did the thing with Sean, organized this thing, and he brought a bunch of Feastibles, I ate about 8 of those things in one night. I felt horrible the next day. I did eat dinner. I just ate all this chocolate. So at least for that night, it felt like a good category.

I gotta take back what I said. I think it's a great category. You convinced me I was wrong. That was great. Uh, I actually, I think what you guys are doing is really smart there. By the way, Hershey's makes like $8 or $9 billion a year in revenue off of, uh, their thing. And the reason I think it's a great category actually based on what you said was the audience fit, but also, uh, just like how old that competition is. And like, you know, you didn't say this, but like if I'm Mars or I'm Mondelez or I'm, Hershey's. Um, you know, I look at my acquisition targets, my M&A targets, there's not many. And, um, I think this is an opportunity where I don't think the business itself is going to generate a ton of profit just because, uh, physical goods and, you know, they're like, as you scale up, it's like, you know, it's not the thickest margins. But I do think this is like a business where you're going to look up and sell it for $500 million or something like that someday if you wanted to.

Yeah. So I take that away. Well, it's, you'd actually be surprised. Chocolate actually is a, it's a pretty good margin business for us. And I mean, Hershey is still, you know, they probably churn off $600 to $800 million in profit every single year and have been doing this for 50-plus years. And so we, yeah, it's, it's, it's been challenging for us, but we understand like what the roadmap is. We really think that, and we don't know how Hershey is going to compete with us seasonally. That's like one thing big for us. Like Halloween's going to be big for us this year. We're doing a lot of different sweepstakes and promotional things. And so, you know, for us, if we can win those months, like October then becomes $100 to $200 million just in a single month, and we can put our full force into just October and then into holiday. And then you turn it around and you're like, okay, now, like, what are we doing for Valentine's Day? What are we doing for Easter? And so these are all like the conversations that we've been having over the last year.

What number would kind of cross the threshold of, all right, we should take this acquisition seriously if one of those guys came to you at the end of the year?

I don't think he takes a multi-billion dollar acquisition right now. There's just too much upside in the business right now.

Just for Feastables.

Well, when we, when we all hung out with them, he was talking about, he was talking to the same thing. I don't know if he was saying Feastables, but just like his enterprise, you know, he threw around crazy ideas of like maybe IPO, maybe sell for billions of dollars. I don't know. Like, but he approached it in a, this isn't an insult, but it was very naive. Like he sounded like an innocent, like, oh, I'm just going to do this and then this and then this. That's it. Like it's, it's going to work. And I remember, but I, but I, but I found it to be like, believable, A, like I believe that he actually could potentially do that, which is crazy. But B, I felt like his ignorance a little bit about business was actually a massive tool for him a little bit where, where I was like, man, that's like, you'd be one of the biggest things in the world. And in his brain he's like, well, yeah, what do you, what do you expect? And I don't know if that's the, maybe naive is not the right word, but there was almost an innocence about it that I, I really appreciated. Do you think you have that same kind of mindset with this or, or do, are half the things that you guys are working on, not just you and him, your rest of your artists or the rest of your folks on your team? Are you like, I don't know if we could pull this off, but whatever, let's just try and get into it. We'll see what happens.

He's probably— we're a little bit different in that regard. I think I'm a little bit more of a realist in terms of knowing how hard these things are to build, knowing how hard these things are to sell. I said ultimately it's going to be his decision if he wants to sell this thing or not. But I think there is a level of him and I are very naive to to at least when we entered the chocolate arena, we didn't really have a good understanding of what we needed to create, how we needed to compete. And I actually think that was an advantage for us because we were just running as fast as possible trying to get product out. And we made a lot of critical, I would say, decisions that were either big positives or big negatives. And we were able to go change the negatives very quickly. I think one is—

I think you said you didn't even have customer support. The day you launched or something like that?

We didn't have customer support in which we then learned in Feastables, like, okay, and a little different business. So we, we had a full customer social support team when we launched Feastables, thankfully.

And you, you know, you've done a couple of these now, and I think, uh, I've always been amazed, like, some creators are much better promoters than others. And it's not just like— it matters like in a couple different ways sometimes. If your brand is like, I'm super real and authentic, anytime you say anything promotional, the audience is like, you know, sellout, you know, you can't do that. And other people whose brand is to be more of a spectacle or more interesting, they can get away with a little more. But there's also just the creator's motivation. So as brands throw money at creators to, you know, tell people, hey, swipe up and do this. Hey, swipe up and do this. You know, like at some point Um, I think everybody becomes a little numb to it, the audience and the creator. What I've been impressed with is for something like Feastable, or I also felt this way with Prime. I felt like with Prime, Logan Paul is like the CMO and he's like, he's looking for every edge he's got. It almost, you know, like, I don't think they own the majority of the company. I think they own a small minority of that company, but he almost treats it like a majority owner. I remember when he went to like, he goes to like, uh, you know, the WWE thing or UFC fight. He's got his Prime bottle with him and then he'll do something that he knows is going to, he'll like embarrass himself. So he gets memed like a million times on Instagram, but he's like, yeah, I got memed, but I was holding, I was holding Prime, wasn't I? And he's like, you know, basically it was all intentional. He's like looking for these little edges. And that's very different than, you know, the old days when, you know, an influencer holds up some detox tea and just says, you know, hey, try this. What do you think is the difference in buy-in and that kind of like that mindset of like, I'm going to use my engine to promote this like to level 100. What have you seen is the difference there and how does that happen?

Explain what it is for somebody who doesn't know.

Finger on the App was we created this mobile game where a person puts their finger on their cell phone and the last person to take the finger off the phone won $100 grand. And there's little bombs that would pop up, so you'd have to like move your thumb around to just avoid objects that would pop on your phone. It ended up lasting 72 hours and then someone won $100K. But, uh, level of excitement and level of promotion just went to the next level. Uh, he was, you know, telling people why they should download it, and he was, you know, messaging people back on Twitter who was like, hey, I just downloaded, I'm ready for the game. He was responding. And so there's like a, a much more— there's much more depth to the level of excitement on the creator side. And you really see that with Prime and with Feastables. And you see it with also Happy Dad with Nelk. They're going all in on Happy Dad. The podcast is essentially built around, you know, Happy Dad is everywhere for each podcast episode. And I do think the future is creators starting businesses. The issue is like most of the time it's just going to happen at the top where, you know, where we are seeing some interesting businesses For like a mid-tier creator who maybe isn't to the level of Logan Paul or Nelk, but they're, you know, Cars vs. Bids or something like that where it's, you know, the channel maybe has 2-3 million subscribers doing 500K a video and they're gaining a lot of traction on that type of business.

What are some other examples like that?

In the creator space?

In the creator space. Cool creator businesses that are not just like, well, I'm the most famous guy on earth, so whatever I say works. You know, what are some like we had Doug DeMurr on for Cars and Bids. What are some other examples like that?

There's one called Rare Candy. It's with Leonhart, who's, you know, he's a relatively large Pokémon-style creator and he has a marketplace where you can buy Pokémon cards and do Pokémon unboxing. So it's similar to Whatnot in how it works, but it's, you know, Leonhart owns a large piece of that business. To go back to the top, like Emma Chamberlain Coffee, I think is another one. It's like very organic to her, talks a lot about coffee. And now I'm starting to see a lot of businesses pop up on the smaller end where it's maybe you have a channel that washes windows, right? So it's like a TikTok creator who maybe it does ASMR through like washing a house or washing windows and they use it as like this top of funnel in like a city where all these individual houses or all these people are now reaching out to and be like, oh, this person's in Austin, I'll pay them $400 to come pressure wash.

I've seen a lot of those. For pressure washing, they're all over the place and the grass cutting, like lawn mowing.

Are you from the Midwest?

I'm from North Dakota.

You're the first person on the pod that says the word wash like I do with an R.

I grew up 40 miles from the Canadian border, so I'm probably just as Canadian as American at this point.

I get made fun of all the time for saying that word that way that I'm embarrassed to even say it, but I just heard you say it. Are there any companies or any creator businesses out there that are shockingly large that many people don't know about?

Yeah. So one that I was wildly impressed by that was much bigger than I initially thought was Dhar Mann. So it's the largest scripted YouTube channel on the internet. And so it's all like, it's daily uploading, but it's long-form scripted storytelling. And so I really didn't understand like how big of an operation that was and how many, you know, people and how many sets and just the sheer volume of content coming out of that business. That, that was one I was pretty surprised by.

And if you don't know what it is, I remember when I first saw it, I was like, are people watching this? And then I just have been paying attention. It's slowly growing. It's almost like the Hallmark or Lifetime channel, but for like, how do you spell it?

What is it?

Dhar Mann, D-H-A-R space M-A-N-N. He has 18.5 million subscribers. It's like, um, it's— there's like a lesson to be learned in like each episode. Is that right, Reed?

Yeah, he used to do something completely different, right? Like, Dhar was doing something completely different and then he, he pivoted into this.

Yep, found, found his footing in scripted storytelling on YouTube. Uh, more fast-paced, a little bit more light on the, the scripted, uh, like storytelling aspect because it's like more content and volume.

I'm pretty sure this guy had a giant weed business before this.

Makeup, actually.

But I think he also had a weed business. Wife is also an influencer. I think she has a makeup business. I'm pretty sure this guy had a cannabis business. I don't know if I got that right. But why is it funny?

Yeah, WeGrow. He started WeGrow and sold hydrophonics and marketed for growing medical marijuana. That's funny. Why is this guy impressive to you, Reed? What's the behind the scenes information?

Just the sheer, like the sheer size of the production company. You know, people, people say it, they're like, oh, you can build, you know, production entities on top of YouTube and creators are hiring employees. You know, it's like, this is a good example of massive production entity built on YouTube, cashflow positive, making money. You know, I think most people thought that, you know, you couldn't do scripted storytelling on YouTube and actually make it a profitable business just because it didn't make sense with how the ad revenue worked and how the splits worked. And he's really figured it out. And it's, it's hard because you have to upload daily and you have to average 2, 3, 4, 5 million views per video to start making significant amount of money. But they've really figured it out on a large scale.

Did they get the revenue up or did they get the expenses down? What did they do different than you would have expected, or what did they— what was the trick?

That's amazing. I can't believe— I remember seeing this guy when he was coming up. I never in a million years would have bet that this would have been a good one. What are some other businesses out there that you've seen that are just shockingly interesting?

So this wasn't, it's not a channel that's a business yet, but I stumbled upon it a couple weeks ago. It's called Ryan Hall Y'all, and he was a former meteorologist and it's like a channel based on just what weather is happening across the country. Different things that you should know about, like the hurricane season. And how it's going to affect the, the, like, the Southeast. And, you know, it's— I, I'd seen channels try and do this in the past. He's the first one that's gaining, like, tremendous traction, and you can see it in the views per video. You know, it's like 2, 3 million views per video just on just talking about different weather patterns. And this, this is one that could, I think, become pretty interesting long-term, whether he decides to build something on top of that. And I'm, I'm guessing it's like a very minimal team. It's probably him plus an editor.

What is he doing? Because weather is so local, people, you know, what do I care about the weather in Toledo, right? Unless there's a natural disaster, like, you know, what do I care? So how is he, how is he doing this? This is incredible.

More of like the talking about just the whole, the things that you should know about tornadoes, or these are the most dangerous weather patterns of the year, of the month. So he talks more holistically about just the entire industry. It's not really localized. I mean, I'm sure he could start localizing channels, but that becomes a much smaller opportunity. You have to, you have to make these videos appeal to everyone and he's done such a good job at that. But these type of like little niche channels that start to pull a tremendous amount of views pop up every single month on YouTube. I mean, the vending machine one was something that I went down that rabbit hole and farming. I went down the farming rabbit hole.

What are the, what's the farming and vending machine ones?

Yeah. So farming, Cole the Corn Star. I'll hit you with a few. So Millennial Farmer, is probably the one that I watch the most. And I grew up on a farm, and so it wasn't that interesting to me because I know all the stuff that he's doing. But for a normal person on the coast who doesn't know about cultivating or anything like that, I think it's really interesting to them. And so he's one that I think appeals more to an older crowd. Cole the Cornstar is another one that probably appeals to a little bit younger demographic where it's a little bit more like pranks and things like that on the farm. And then Lauren Farms, a female channel, also kind of showing like in the daily aspect of just what do you do on a farm. And so there really is a space for all types of content on the internet now. That's why the argument of the internet is so oversaturated, it's hard to break through as a creator, like I just have never bought that argument because On TikTok and YouTube Shorts, I'm seeing things that continue to break through on a weekly basis, and then people are figuring out how to turn it into an actual channel that's profitable. And we're seeing it with people like Ryan Hall, y'all, who, you know, nobody would've ever thought that a channel about the weather could pull 3 million views a video, but yet here he is doing it time and time again.

Totally agree. Like building a new Weather Channel I think is incredibly complex and complicated, but he definitely has the type of distribution that could start that business. I think then it's just like he would need to find a partner to help him probably execute that. But yeah, that, that's I think why I found that the channel so interesting. It's like, I go to the Weather Channel, I even have a widget on my iPhone that like pops up from— it's like automated from the Weather Channel, it gives me the weather every single day. I was like, I would much rather download a Ryan AllY'all widget that like gave me the weather. I'd much rather support that, um, than the Weather Channel. And so yeah, I think there's a much— there's a pretty interesting opportunity there for him.

You'd made a comment, you said something like you would bet that YouTube will be 5 times more valuable than any other platform combined in terms of value to, from a creator's point of view, of the type of business you can build on top of it. You know more than I do, but Sean and I had made this argument like a year and a half or two years ago where we're like, man, Twitter's like happening in the tech field, but there's not really like a, a, what's the Kardashian lady, the Jenner, there's not like one of the Jenner persons who have like launched this like Instagram business that became a billion dollar company off of Twitter yet. But we think that there's going to be something there. And then Sean was like, yeah, there's like the guys on the guy mafia on Twitter. There's like the strip mall guy, there's like the storage guy, and they're actually like raising a significant amount of investor money to create some of these companies. Do you— have you been playing around with Twitter and seeing like some of the micro-influencers? And the major difference is instead of like what you do, which is more pop culture, this is a little bit more B2B and much older. But have you paid attention to like Twitter and played around with the idea of one of these folks, whether it's like a sweaty startup, our friend Nick Huber, who's got like a 400,000 following about them building like pretty big companies on the back of Twitter as opposed to YouTube?

Yeah, I've seen it. I'm actually not surprised because I've been pretty outspoken of social platforms. Where do you build the most fan loyalty across social? And I've seen that Twitter is at the top of the pyramid in terms of fan loyalty, like a a Twitter follower that will comment on your tweets is much more valuable than a casual viewer on TikTok or Instagram because usually they actually care. And so I think people are now starting to figure that out, that, oh, Twitter is actually incredibly valuable if you can start to gain traction and start to get people that really engage. It's also, it's an older demographic where I think the one thing that YouTube is really struggling with right now is, yes, there's people like Ryan Hall and there's people like Millennial Farmer who are appealing to maybe a 20 to 30-year-old. But there it's, it's much more suited for an 8-year-old to watch content. Whereas Twitter to me is like, I spend most of my time on Twitter. The people that I meet on Twitter, like I would buy products from if they actually promoted something. And so I just think that Twitter for me has been really interesting from just a fan loyalty perspective. It's just the depth of the platform, whereas Instagram and TikTok to me have been more casual. I buy things on Instagram, but it's rare. And TikTok is like my mindshare. It's like every single second I'm seeing a new video. I don't even remember the names of the channels that I see on TikTok. They just come and go. Like, I— and when I'm at different events and I see a lot of TikTok creators, I recognize them because I've seen them on TikTok. I have no idea what their TikTok channels are, which is bad, but I will remember like someone's Twitter That I see and I'll be like, oh my gosh, that's @whatever it is. Very rarely do I say that about TikTok. And so I just think that the depth of consumer is just much different on Twitter.

Who would you buy a product from? Which of the quote Twitter creators would you buy a product from? Or rather, who are some of your favorite follows?

I mean, I met Blake Robbins, which we did a podcast together. I met him on Twitter. That was how we met. I thought his tweets were incredibly interesting. I thought as an investor, he was talking about a lot of things that interest me. And so if Blake would've sold anything 3 to 4 years ago before I knew him, I would've instantly bought it because he had built up that loyalty. I had that loyalty of like, I not only agreed with a lot of things he was saying, I thought it was really interesting to the point where I would take time to comment or like that tweet. And I have a lot of those now just that I follow on Twitter. And then you get to like the— of it that are getting hundreds of thousands of likes. And I think now then you have the bots and you have a lot of internet trolls and stuff like that. But where Blake kind of sits is in the 30,000, 40,000 follower range. And a lot of those people care about what he's saying. And then the word of mouth becomes really interesting where someone says, hey, I use an Eight Sleep mattress. It's changed my life. If someone like Blake or you guys tweet that, I'm going to be like, what is an Eight Sleep mattress? I should probably figure out why they like this so much. But if someone on TikTok is like, oh, my Eight Sleep mattress, blah, blah, blah, I probably just scroll past it and don't even think twice about it. So that, that to me is like something that I've noticed.

I tweeted out that I love Eight Sleep. Like, I don't have any affiliation with them. I just had one of their mattresses and I tweeted out how much I loved it. And then right away their team reached out like, hey, can we do an affiliate deal? Or do you ever want to partner together? I'm like, No, man, I just, I'm just talking about cool shit that I like. And so, but they said they, they said they, they sold a lot of mattresses from that tweet.

Yeah. The people that follow you also can afford the product. They, you know, probably been following you for a long time. They trust what you say because you guys aren't shilling a ton of stuff constantly. So when you authentically talk about a product, like people pay attention. It's like Tim Ferriss, right? Like I, I used to pay a lot of attention to what Tim Ferriss was using and talking about on Twitter.

Are there any other good follows that you have that you could see launching a business and succeeding?

I mean, you guys mentioned some really good ones. It's not a platform that I pay a lot of attention to in terms of individuals like that could grow businesses. I think I'm much more suited for YouTube. I live in the depths of YouTube every single day. Twitter for me is like following people I know, you guys, my friends, like other people in the business sphere. But we'll see. I hope they're able to grow businesses on top of it. I have a lot of confidence in Twitter just as a platform to grow fan loyalty.

What about Threads? We didn't ask you about Threads.

If you guys look at the Google Trends for Threads, it's not looking good. I also saw a graph this morning on daily active users for Threads that just like fell off a cliff.

It plummeted.

It's, it's, but that's predictable. I didn't have a lot of faith in it, but we'll see.

I don't think that— I, I saw a lot of people talking about that, and I think their takeaway is like, oh, it's not working, or it failed. But like, that was always going to happen, even whether Threads is going to succeed or not. If they got 100 million people to download the app— any app, look at the Twitter app, will do the same— if you get 100 million people in a day to download the thing, you're going to churn. Like, you know, 80% of them won't just start using the app regularly, habitually., right away. So, so to me, I see that and I'm like, this is completely normal. And like, to me has no, uh, like that was going to happen either way. Um, there was no chance that 100 million people are going to download it and 100 million people are going to keep using it next week. That's no app in the history of mankind ever has worked that way. And so the question is like, what happens? I don't know, uh, 3 months from now, once they get their kind of core base of users, does that start growing or not? And what would like, you know, there's no way to know until then.

Yeah, totally agree. Uh, I haven't logged on. I logged on the first day I downloaded it and haven't really been on since.

So I, there's also like, you know, you tell your talent to like keep an eye on it or what'd you tell your talent?

No, we honestly don't care. Uh, it's up to them. Most of them will download it and we'll post on it and see if they like it. I think we'll wait, like you said, it's going to take months to figure out if this is going to gain traction. I think most of them are just going to patiently wait. I don't think any of our talent's going to fully lean into Threads. They're better off putting their time into making amazing YouTube videos.

We did this video, Sean and I did this video like 2 weeks ago or a week ago where we were talking about how we liked that Zuck did this and we were Team Zuck. And Sean, we officially have a new nickname. I don't know if you saw this in the comments of YouTube, but we are officially now Zuck's cuck.

Plural.

Both of us.

Zucks cucks. They call those Zucks cucks.

Uh, the t-shirts are getting printed. Uh, we should be all right.

I don't know, like, how we are his cuck. Does that mean we are having sex with his wife, or, or is he having sex with our wife?

It's more like the Mighty Ducks. It's like, we're the Mighty Ducks. We're this, this, this, uh, the small group of people who really believe in this thing that everybody else kind of, uh, has written off or hates.

Yeah, but we're a cuck, so I don't know who's, who's having sex with whose life, but something is happening there of which we are involved in. Uh, we are officially Zuck's cucks, which I'm okay with. I, I, that, yeah, I'm a Zuck cuck for sure.

See, well, once, once they box or fight MMA, like, I'll be on Elon's side of the, the octagon. So maybe we'll—

will you really, bro? I will bet you a large, a large sum of money that if that ever happens, that Zuck would crush him.

I, yeah, I guess in terms of who would win, I mean, just looking at the pictures that Mark posted with Israel Adesanya and Volkanovski scares me a little bit if I'm Elon Musk, but I still like, I got to support you. So win or lose.

Do you, um, last couple of questions, but what would you sell Knight Media for right now?

I wouldn't. I created Knight because I really enjoy it. I mean, what would I do if I sold Knight Media? I become an investor. Like I already get to do that.

So yeah, but, but there's, there's always, there's got to be a number. What do you think it's worth?

Man, I don't know, to be honest. It all depends on how you value the subsidiary labs businesses. I mean, I could probably, I know what the core management company is worth and what the subsidiary businesses are, I think is like where it could flex quite a bit.

But I don't know.

I enjoy it. I think if I sold Knight, the acquiring business would have to make me the CEO. Like if we sold it to an agency, like they would have to make me the CEO of that major agency or management company because I actually enjoy doing this. It's not something like I didn't start Night Media to sell Night Media. I started Night Media because I was like, I really enjoy what I really want to do this. I find fulfillment in it. I have a venture capital fund. I get to invest. I get to start businesses. I get to be entrepreneurial. I get to be a manager and I get all the perks of being a manager. I don't want to do anything else right now. That might change in a few years. Who knows what time will do? But yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't sell. We've had offers. I just wouldn't sell it.

Hundreds of millions of dollars, I would assume.

Low hundreds of millions of dollars. There's no chance in hell.

That's wild. You're in a good position to be in, right?

Yeah. I mean, I feel like we're, I said this about Feastables, I feel I think this about the whole company in general is we haven't even got started. It'd be hard for me to sell this thing with the amount of upside that I see over the next 5 years. I could see a partnership of some sort. I don't think I could just fully sell it and walk away or have an earnout over multiple years right now. Not yet.

Well, you raised $100 million or you received $100 million from Churnin. In a separate fund to buy consumer businesses that you could then kind of like plug in YouTube distribution into something like that. I think that's the idea. Can you explain the big idea there and what, if you've done anything with that yet?

Yeah, they've done that tons of times.

Yeah, a massive opportunity for us to do it as well, just because we understand this creator ecosystem and just internet pop culture so much better than anyone else. And so that ideally is like why we did Night Capital. We're not in a hurry to do a deal. I think the economy has been something that scared us a little bit, and everyone that did deals in 2022 I think is really regretting a lot of those. And so we're just patiently waiting for what that thing is going to be.

Well, dude, we appreciate you doing this. You're the man. It's always— I like just hearing like what you're tinkering with. You have a very interesting, perspective on things. What do you think, Sean?

Yeah, this was fun. Um, and I'm glad, uh, I don't know how well we stuck to our mission, but I think it was pretty good. Yeah, it was pretty good. Uh, we'll bleep out every mention, um, because this is the zero clout podcast, zero clout chasing podcast, and, uh, we have a no clout policy and we did not, we did not want to do that.

Wait, but do we have to use his face on a thumbnail?

No, we're going to blur it out.

I think we have to put like his face and then Reed's face next to it and blur out Reed's face and the thumbnail's like the man behind the scenes or something ridiculous.

I'll let you guys figure that one out. I mean, there's plenty of things that—

No, you got to figure it out. We don't know how to do it. We suck at YouTube.

You guys are killing it.

So no, YouTube is— we have way more downloads on, on like the actual podcast, you know, iTunes and stuff like that. We suck at YouTube.

I mean, I would argue that a listener on iTunes or Spotify is probably way more valuable than a single listener on YouTube in the podcast genre. So I think what you guys are doing is incredible. And I would continue to focus on listens across other platforms. I wouldn't like hedge too highly on YouTube at the moment.

I agree that we've, we've, we like went hard on YouTube for like the last 12 months and now it's like, oh man, actually the podcast number that just steadily grows every single week, whereas YouTube, it's a little, it's a little lumpy.

Yeah. I'm the opposite. I love YouTube. I think it's great. I think I just like the comments, I guess.

I love it too, but I do think that I consume your guys' podcast on Spotify.

So yeah, I guess that's what you get used to once wherever you consume it, you're like, this is a good place for things. And so yeah, that's where things go. All right, Reed, thanks for coming on, man. Where should people follow you or find you? Shout out wherever you want people to go.

I mean, we spoke a lot about Twitter, so it's just ReedJD on Twitter. And then I probably am the most active on Instagram in terms of like answering messages. So same thing, @reejd on Instagram. So I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me on.

See ya.

I feel like I could rule the world.

I know I could be what I want to.

I put my all in it like no days off on the road. Let's travel, never looking back.