From Quirkiest Biz Ideas to Favorite "Creatorpreneurs" - MFM Q&A
So I went to school at Belmont University and it was like a Southern Christian university that had low standards.
Yeah, that's amazing. That is what it says on their website too.
It says it like home of mediocrity, uh, like mediocre people, exceptional prices, uh, like All right, we're live. We're doing a Q&A session. We decided this kind of last minute.
It's like when a substitute teacher comes in and they roll out the TV on the trolley and they're like, hey guys, today, you know what, I decided I want a day off. Oh no, no, no, sorry, I wanted you guys to watch this movie. No, it works out because frankly I think people like this and we like the movie too. It works. It's a win-win.
And so Yeah, we have to do very little work and people like it. Let's just get right into it. We're going to keep each question at around 3 minutes, uh, which is not— you don't have to worry about me going over. It's Sean. Let's do it. Ben, what do you got? Let's do a little Q&A. So basically the background is we both tweeted out, what questions do you have? And we got a bunch of them in the, uh, uh, on the tweets. And, uh, we'll see where we go. We had, we, I think we have like a hundred, hundreds of them and we selected maybe 10-ish. Of each, uh, or of, from each of our Twitters and we'll see which ones are interesting. All right, go. Okay.
Uh, from someone named Nubet, a pretty basic one. What is your opinion on sweaty startups?
All right. Here's my opinion. I think it's cool. I think any way you can get your nut, you get it.
That said, that sounds, uh, is that a philosophy you've had since you were a teenager or what?
Yeah. Get that nut. I think if you can get it, it doesn't matter which way you get it, get it. And there's lots of examples of everyone succeeding in all different types of industry. Personally, I think making money digitally is significantly better because it requires close to no capital. In some cases, you can work from anywhere. There's been times I've sent an email from my phone and it's made a whole bunch of money. And I think that it's way hard, way harder to make $1 million a year from a brick and mortar. Business than it does, uh, digitally. I also think that the lab— laptop class— I saw Elon Musk call Tesla headquarters employees the laptop class. I think those types of people, of which most of you are, including myself, we want to do stuff with our hands. And I think it's significantly better just to make money on the internet and then all your free time go get a hobby. Because if you go and talk to a blue-collar worker, they sure as hell don't want to be there. Um, so I'd rather be in the situation of like being able to choose to spend my time doing it the other way versus—
so switch. In this question, the guy said, uh, Sweaty Startup makes great— this is Nick, our buddy Nick Huber. So, uh, Nick makes great points about not wanting to compete with Stanford grads, generating real cash flow, and getting rich the slow way. I agree, this might be the best way to go. What do you guys think? So I think this whole— Nick is great, and Nick, and, and I think you're totally right. That however you want to win, win. And there are many, many ways to win. If anything, if this podcast teaches you one thing, it's how many different ways there are to win. But given that, given that there are many ways to win, you better choose the one you really want. And for me, I'm like, I might as well choose the one that is most ideal, the most in tune with the lifestyle I want. I don't want to go worry about the roof damage at my self-storage facility or that the, you know, the $15 an hour employee called out sick and there's nobody at the front door now to take customers today. Like, I don't want those issues. I'm happy bearing a different set of issues. Uh, and so that, you know, I think you got to choose how you want to win. And I also think this whole idea of like, you don't want to compete against Stanford kids. This is like a great soundbite, but it doesn't matter. It's one of these true, but not important. I used to say this all the time and it pissed everybody off in the office. I'd say, That's so true. And it doesn't matter. Yeah.
Which it's like, dude, I just want to win like my high school conference championship. I don't need to worry about Usain Bolt.
Exactly.
You know what I mean? Like if I get there, I'll be good.
Nobody who's doing digital comp, like an internet company is like, God, these wretched Stanford kids keep, keep beating me. It's like, dude, I haven't seen a Stanford kid. Even if I did see a Stanford kid, you seen those dorks? That's not a problem.
Like, yeah, give them a wedgie and push them out the way, nerd. Like you don't have to worry about these guys in most cases.
Beard knuckles still work. Nuggies are very effective. I'm just joking, but like, it's not the Stanford kids that are the problem. If you fail in the internet, it's because it's a noisy place and you couldn't get anyone's attention, right? You die of starvation, not murder when it comes to startups, internet startups. And so if you're, if you're failing, it's not because the Stanford kids beat you. It's because the market didn't want what you, what you had to offer. And I don't know, I, I like sitting behind my laptop. I haven't worn pants in, you know, 450 days. This is the way to live.
And by the way, you have or had, you know, you could talk about it whatever you want, but you've had an e-commerce business, which is— have 20%, uh, brick and mortar, as in you have like people you got to go see.
And we have physical products, we have warehouse, we have things like that. More than 20%.
Yeah, whatever it is. Uh, and then you also did Milk Road. Which one was better?
Uh, the newsletter that— the newsletter that someone else wrote that we pushed one button to send. To, you know, 300,000 people and just printed profits from month one. Yeah, that's the one that I think that was the one I liked the best. The one that after a year we were able to sell just like that because there was no, none of that sweat, right? They call it sweaty startups for a reason. So, uh, I've done both. The one thing I will say though, real estate has some amazing tax perks so that, that he does have that going for it.
And we'll wrap it up by saying, And this sounds like I'm making fun of Nick and Cody, both of whom are my great friends. Cody Sanchez. So I'm not, but ask them which one's making more money, the digital stuff or the brick and mortar stuff. Right. Um, I don't actually know the truth to these sweaty startup guys.
You guys are pretty active on, uh, Twitter and, uh, selling courses and these online courses, huh? Hey Cody, how's that digital revenue versus that laundromat revenue?
Right. So I would, I would ask them which one they think is better., but who knows? All right. What do we got?
All right. Next up, uh, we'll take it from the top. Someone named Blockmates asks, what's the most interesting business you've seen that didn't take off? And why do you think that was?
Go for it. All right. So there was this app back in the day that I saw, and when I saw it, I was like, this is, this is going to hit. It was made by these Russian dudes. Um, and it's called Povio. And what Povio used to do was Every other social network was, um, like, I post photos. So Facebook was like, I go to a party, I post an album of photos. Then Instagram was like, yo, I'm on the go. I'm at a cafe. I'll take a photo of my cappuccino. And it all had this kind of like, look at me. Uh, I'm kind of bragging about my life thing. And I've always said that social networks, when a social network hits, it's not because of a feature. It's because of a change in the privacy policy. Right? So like Facebook was the first time you used your real name on the internet because you would do it with other college kids who went to your same school. That's why Facebook got your real name, your real relationship status, your real courses, put you, get you to put it online. Twitter was like, hey, you don't have to be my friend. You could just follow me. I can't even, I don't even have to approve you. You just follow me. That's a change in privacy policy. Snapchat, change of privacy policy. It was like, yo, this is a disappearing photo that's private. So every great social network has a change in the privacy policy. And Povio had a genius one, which was you would request a photo from someone else. So I would ping you and it would open up your phone and it would go 3, 2, 1, and it would take a picture of whatever you're doing or wherever you're at. And so you could kind of be like, it's a way of saying what's up. But the person would default reply with a photo. And I was like, this is genius. They're getting people, they're giving people even more excuses to take random useless pictures. This shit's going to fly. And sure enough, on the first college campus, it started to work and it was growing. And then it just kind of faded away. It never really made it. And I still believe in this mechanic of if somebody made this app where you would, you would basically be, you're basically saying what's up and they're replying with a photo and you're basically pulling the photo from them rather than pushing it online. I think that's kind of a game changer, but I was wrong. It never, it never worked.
I'm looking at their app description and their app page, uh, in iTunes. Um, and it says that it only has like 5 reviews, so it never took off. But the funny part is, is that, you know how there's like screenshots of the app? It's a very clearly, it looks like a kid on the Stanford campus taking a picture and the way Stanford's in Palo Alto, this says Santa Clara. I don't know what, I don't know what's there, but like, you don't got to worry about those Stanford kids. See, it's no big deal. It doesn't work. Um, But mine is, um, Dorsey. So it didn't work out. It's door, the word door, then S-E-Y. Um, but I've always wanted, I've been looking to invest in companies that have a good chance of making buying a home online possible. Uh, I'm, I've like, I'm a firm believer that people will end up buying close to everything online. And there's only a few categories where that's not the case. It's like hardware. So like, Like Home Depot still crushes it because like you don't buy a screw on the internet. And then homes, it's another thing that people don't buy online. No one's figured it out yet. This company has not worked yet. And I still think there's an opportunity for a company to work in the space where you can buy, like you'll make hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars purchase on the internet. I think that's going to be a thing. Do you remember when Mark Cuban bought a jet on eBay and it was like all the rage? Like people freaked out.
I didn't even know this.
Yeah. So when he sold his company Broadcast.com, he, you know, became a billionaire and he bought a $50 million Gulfstream jet on eBay and people were freaking out, which it's not even that, like, that's not even that interesting if you ask me. It's only interesting that it's a big purchase, but like, you know, a jet, like if it's the same model, you kind of know what you're going to get. And like the condition is like fair, excellent.
You know what I mean? I just asked Google's AI thing. I said, what percentage of Home Depot sales are online? And it said 2022, 60% of its sales were online. So even Home Depot is selling the majority of products online versus brick and mortar.
Well, if it's revenue, then yeah, I believe that because people will order grills. But like when you want like a $5 like bolt, you usually just go there and you'll buy like 10 of all different sizes. You know what I mean? See like which ones actually fit. But yeah, I'm into like things that can't be sold or aren't being sold online yet that should be. And I think that homes are one of them.
What else you got, Ben? All right, here we go.
This is something we've talked a lot about recently, but what does enough look like for you?
You've got a much better answer than I do.
Just for reference, I put a bullet point in and I wrote out what my answer might be, like a blurb, and mine's this long thoughtful thing. And then Sam's like, Sam's, I'll just answer yours for you. It just says, I don't think there's ever enough. Maybe you explain your point of view and then I'll sound like an idiot.
Well, here's why. I thought that there was like, there's been multiple times in my life. It was like $100,000, $500,000 where I thought I won't worry. And I've hit a lot of different of these targets and I still worry. There's times where I worry less for a little while, but it like, have you ever heard the idea of like, have you ever seen, um, you probably haven't, but there's like stories and studies of people who lose a, lose a limb and they're pretty bummed for like 6 or yeah, they're bummed for like 6 or 12 months and then they go right back to being, they're like, okay, I'm back at it. I feel fine. Uh, I think it's the same with like a lot of money stuff where it's like, uh, you make it the amount that you thought and then you go back to like where you were. And I believe that to be true. That's why I said never enough.
Well, I'll say a couple of, uh, other, other ways I think about this.
So yeah, come on, Indian guru.
Yeah. Let me just, I mean, do you got your wisdom cups out everybody? Cause I'm about to fill you up.
Yeah. Are you going to, do you need to sit like an Indian style to tell the story?
Yeah, exactly. Let's just take a deep breath in first before I do this. All right, so Vipassana. So Paul Graham did this thing where he created Y Combinator, which is basically the most successful company in Silicon Valley besides like Google and Facebook. And then he just retired and he just left and he moved to like the woods in England and he just writes code in his cabin with his kids and writes poetry and paints and goes for walks. And I was like, this motherfucker thinks he's got enough, huh? And I was like, how dare he leave the rat race? All of the rats, we were shaking our fist being like, you get your ass back in here. And I got inspired by that and I was like, okay, so what is the, like, what's the enough state? Not money, but like, what would I, what is my version? So instead of thinking what number would I feel like is enough, because I think that's a trap. I just thought about if I felt like I had enough, what would I want to go do? And then I thought maybe I could just go do that thing. So here's what I came up with. Two things. I said, I heard this Naval quote, which was, retirement is when you stop sacrificing today for an imagined tomorrow. And that hit home. And he was like, what that means is that the moment you do things in your day, that the act of doing them is the reward. Not like you're doing them today, sacrificing for some future payoffs that are going to come at that moment, you are free. And I was like, okay, that's the goal. The goal is to be free, meaning the goal is to, on a daily basis, do things that the act of doing them is the reward. I'm not doing them for some future rewards. And I said, if I did that, what types of things would I want to do? What types of things is the act of doing them the reward itself? And here's what I came up with. I said, I think that having a big podcast is actually the best job in the world, and I'm obviously biased here, but I've also tried a bunch of things and this is the best. If you have a big podcast, that means you're famous, but you're only famous amongst nerds, which is kind of the not annoying way to be famous. It's like all the good parts of being famous without the bad. You also get rich, but you didn't have to chase money. You get to create content, but you're not like the annoying 24/7 vlogger. Who's got their phone out and ruins like their actual life trying to create content for some audience. Because with the podcast, like, we sit here for like 2 hours a week and record, or 3 hours a week and record, and that's it. The other 165 hours in a week, we get to do whatever we want. We don't have to think about creating content.
And we don't have to get hurt while we're doing it. Like, if you watch—
I don't have to constantly one-up myself and like, like that dumbass YouTuber who crashed a plane on purpose for views and now is going to jail. You're not competing on an algorithm like TikTok where you get this hit of fame and then you're forever chasing it. Podcast is great. You just talk, you're unscripted, you're unedited, you're talking to a friend or somebody you admire. Like if it's a guest, that seems like the best job in the world. And then for fun, I would basically coach a basketball team like Mighty Ducks style, and I would want to just chill out and just shoot the shit in a writer's room for like a TV show or a comedian. Or teach at Stanford twice a week. I think those are the things that I would just do for the pure joy of doing them, not for some future rewards. And to me, I'll have enough when my day is mostly shit like that.
Why haven't you tried to get a teaching job or a coaching job?
I haven't put enough attention on it. Like, this question made me think about it and made me think, oh, why don't I just go do that now? And often life is that simple. Like, It's not that there's actually any barrier in the way, it's just I didn't put my attention on what do I actually want? Oh yeah. Okay. I can probably just go get that now.
One good excuse is you have young kids, so it's like once they go to school, maybe, uh, that would be, uh, that would be possible.
Yeah, but I'm not a believer in that. I think it's really just a matter of like, I didn't put my focus on that's what I really want. Okay, then go get it.
By the way, there was a good Paul Graham thing. So this guy tweeted out, there are very few second-time founders because anyone smart enough to succeed the first time isn't dumb enough to do it all over again. Paul replied, he goes, anyone smart enough to succeed the first time is still running that company. And then our friend Akita go, yeah, wonder what happened with that washed up ViyaWeb founder and what he's doing these days. That was Paul Graham's first thing. And he goes, touché, Paul. So like, you know, even, even the smart guys like Paul can, can get things wrong once in a while. So he says he's got enough, but who knows? I actually do believe that he does, but Um, I think your answer's better than mine. Uh, it is about enjoying the experience more. And whenever I was like running my old company, The Hustle, I look back at it and I'm like, I wish I would've enjoyed that more during the process. But that's a very challenging thing to do.
Well, I'll just ask you one thing. Are you okay with knowing that you'll never have enough? Before you answer that, let me just put it the other way, which is if you feel like you'll never have enough, that sort of is, uh, to me that means you're never really free. Like the most fun interactions, you know, this is like when you meet with somebody, you want nothing from them and you need nothing from them. Like those are the best interactions with people. There is no more freeing feeling than just literally, I don't need you and I don't want anything from you. I can just be here and just have, have whatever experience I'm gonna have, uh, versus the opposite. When you want someone's approval or you need them to like you or you need them to hire you, those are the most stressful interactions. And so to me, I think if you want to be free, you gotta believe that there is such a thing as enough.
I think you're thinking about it differently than I am. So let's say that you're an athlete. Let's say that you're a weightlifter, or let's say that you're a comedian. You're Hasan Minhaj, your buddy. Is he ever going to be like, I'm funny enough. I don't need to improve my craft anymore. I don't think so. I think he could find a bit of contentment of being like, I'm on top of my game. I'm doing awesome. And I can always get better. And that's kind of when I say it's never enough, that's what I mean. If my craft is building, if my craft is building companies, that means that there's always more that I can do to be better. But that doesn't mean that I'm unhappy or not satisfied with where I am.
Fair enough. Fair enough. All right, man, let's go to the next one.
If you could go back to your college days, what is the one thing you would have done differently knowing what you know now? That's from Sam Faber.
So I was a huge idiot in college and not even like the cool idiot that was like, ah man, I was, I was just being dumb, just going to parties, having fun with my friends, late nights. You know, it's like, wait, did you love it? Or are you saying it was bad? And it's like, for me, I was just an idiot. I was just doing nothing. I was a do-nothing idiot. And that's the worst kind. And to me, now that I look back, I'm like, wow, college is a goldmine. You can make lifelong friends. You can, meet future business partners. Even just, you know, I'm a business junkie now. I wish that when I was in college I had been launching businesses. I got a captive market of students who I understand, who I can reach, that are just living, literally living in this bubble waiting to be sold products. And I could have been working on my skills then versus I started working on my skills after college. You know, there was alumni that like, I didn't realize how powerful it is just to be like, hey, I'm, I'm also I also go to Duke. You went to Duke 35 years ago. I go there now and they're like, cool, you wanna hang out? And it's like, it's that easy to connect. And so now I look back and I would say I would mine that gold mine. I was just sitting there eating Chick-fil-A on top of a gold mine. I didn't even really look down and realize what I was sitting on. The only smart thing I did was I studied abroad, which is kind of a thing you really want to do at that point in time.
Where?
I went to Australia.
What would you— you didn't go to Sydney, did you?
I did.
Yeah. Yeah, man. Sydney. I think Sydney, Australia is the greatest city on earth. It is the greatest city on earth. It's the best place to be like a 19-year-old.
It's the greatest place on earth.
My biggest regret is that I didn't take high school seriously enough to get into some of these amazing schools. So I went to school at Belmont University and it was like a Southern Christian university that had low standards.
Yeah, that's amazing. That is what it says on their website too.
Is it like home of mediocrity? Uh, mediocre people, exceptional prices. Uh, like back then it was very expensive. It was very expensive. And it was like such a mediocre thing. I like when you say you went to Duke, like I, I, I envy you so much because at least you got like, even the basketball guys were like the best. And then a lot of your peers were very, very smart. And I bet you met like a lot of people from, even though it was in the South, I bet you still met like tons of different like foreigners, people from New York City, people from California. I didn't get to meet any of those people. So I regret that. The first like Jewish person I met was when I moved to San Francisco at the age of like 22. Like I didn't know, like it was just like pretty much just white people. And so I wish I was like around more of a, like a global, uh, group of people. And so that was one of my big regrets. I also wish that I took seriously the idea that the things that you do in college aren't that important. They don't have to be like the thing that you do, but if you take your hobbies seriously, it's a really fun time to try on different personalities and things like that. So I wish I had a little— I took— I wish I took that more seriously.
I totally agree with that last part, which was I thought in college the thing is your classes and the result is your grades. But actually that's completely backwards. Like the thing is the people in the environment, that's the one thing you're never going to get back. And then if you really wanted a result, you wanted to like, you know, take it seriously. The way to take it seriously wasn't to get A pluses or like, you know, be an amazing chemistry major. It was actually be like, hey, this is 4 years. And after this, I'm supposed to figure out, I'm supposed to be like doing a job and pick a career. I should dabble. I should go and like, sample, like it's Costco and it's noon, and I should go sample a bunch of different ways, things that you could do, meet a bunch of people who do that thing. And I should take this time to figure out what do I actually like to do? And I wish colleges were oriented like that because colleges are oriented around the opposite assumption. It's like, pick what you want. That means you must know, and then put your head down and focus. And it's like, that's the wrong time to focus. You should be dabbling at that stage.
Do you have good credit?
I have okay credit. I have good enough credit.
Dude, I wish I would have— so I didn't get a credit card until I was like 24, and then I started my company and I would max it out constantly. And then I would always pay it off before I had to. So my credit card utilization was always like 100%, and I didn't have a long credit history. And so I wish I had— this is a very practical thing. I wish I had a credit card at the age of 18 and I used it for everything and always paid it off so I could build credit history. I don't have like the most, the best credit because of that.
What did that come back to bite you? Where, why do you need your credit so bad? You're trying to get loans or something? What are you trying to do?
What, when I tried to buy the house that I'm living in now, I couldn't buy it. My wife had to buy it. One, because my credit history wasn't long enough, which is crazy. Uh, and it wasn't like fantastic. I think like every once in a while it's in the 600s. And then, um, B, because you're a business owner, buying a house and getting a mortgage is really, really challenging. So I couldn't buy it.
Fair enough. All right. What do we got?
All right. This next one is, uh, have you had a deal not go through when close to finishing it? If so, what did you learn to do better? How did your mentality regroup to start the process over? Not for sure, but I feel like the sellers are trying to tank this business acquisition, which is supposed to close on May 31st. That's from Mackenzie Reed.
This is a great question. And I accidentally interrupted you, but he said, um, I feel like sellers are trying to tank this Biz acquisition, which is supposed to close on 5/31. I want to address that, but first, I had a deal go through. I think my NDA's up, but there's a recent media company that went bankrupt that tried to buy The Hustle, and we got to a term sheet and it completely fell through, or we got to an LOI and it completely fell through. And there was like 3 others that I had lined up and it also fell through, and I was devastated. So I changed my opinion to, this, like any deal that I have, it's going to happen to, it will not happen, but I will act as if it's going to, but just assume it's not going to. And then if it does, I will be happy because most fall through. But to address that last question of, I think the sellers are trying to tank this biz acquisition. I had that exact same attitude when I sold to HubSpot. And I, and then one day I just told them, I got to know the woman, uh, who is, I was working with at HubSpot. And she was like, look, you don't understand. We're worth $20 billion. This deal is really not a big deal to us. Like this ain't going to do anything for us. I mean, it'll do a little something, but just so you know, we already got like board approval to do it, which means I told my boss and that boss told their boss and then that boss reported it to 12 people who are like billionaires and shit. And so if this deal doesn't go through, that means all 12 of those people have to like change something. And then more so I'm going to look stupid., and my boss is gonna look stupid and this other boss is gonna look stupid. So because we're a big publicly traded company, if we say we're gonna do something, we're gonna do it. Not necessarily because of it's, it's a logical good deal, but because I don't wanna look dumb in front of all my bosses. So we're going to do this versus when you sell to a smaller company or like an individual who's got money, I do feel they will always try, or not always, a lot of times they will nickel and dime you or they will try to dock you. But I don't necessarily think a lot of times they're trying to ruin something, but I do think they will. Have ulterior motives, which is like, I'm trying to learn a little bit of information about this company so I could start up my own or do all these other things. But when you sell to a big publicly traded company, I think 9 out of 10 times it's not in their best interest to screw you.
That's a great answer. Uh, I'm the same way. I go into every single deal assuming the deal is not going to go through because, uh, as Emmett said to me, birds fly, fish swim, and deals fall through. That's what they do. Deals fall through. It is not a Is it not an outlier or exception or like disaster when that happened? Oh, a deal did what it does. Deals fall through. That's what they do, baby. Like, what you worried about? Sit your ass down. Why you crying? That's how, that's my, that's how I talk to myself when I, when I get like emotionally attached to a deal. So the emotional detachment is key. All right. Well, how do you do that? Part of it's you gotta, you needed to be having a bulletproof mindset before you get into an M&A transaction. It's too late. When you're in the M&A transaction to be like, all right guys, I'm gonna toughen up this here brain to be able to like operate in a very like tricky circumstance where I might get life-changing money or it might all fall through. And like, you know, that's a, that's hard to do then. You gotta train before that. You know, that's the first thing. Second thing is, I not only do they fall through, that's also not fatal when they do. In fact, every deal I've done has had a fall-through moment, if not two. And so that is my, my rule of thumb, which is that every deal that does close, both— there's gonna be two walkaways along the way. You're gonna walk away or they're gonna walk away. That's gonna probably happen twice. You're gonna hit a wall twice before this deal actually happens where it feels like this deal is dead or it's simply not happening, or there's just a very, very low chance that we get over this, this hurdle.
Have you announced or have you said, have you ever mentioned, I'm not sure if it's an NDA, the other two people you almost sold to, but instead of Twitch?
Uh, I think I've said before, like, we got pretty far down the road with Facebook and that we also had a couple others that were— Facebook, we had that we were at, we were like out 1 hour away from accepting the deal and finishing it. Um, and one of the good things that they did tell me was same thing you just said about HubSpot. Uh, so Twitch is owned by Amazon and the corp dev guy was like, look, I'm sorry we've been so slow and I'm sorry we're not the, like, we can't just give you everything you want in terms of price. But here's the good news. We will not retrade this deal, which is what it's called when you come back and you try to get that.
That's what they told me too.
That second negotiation, once everybody's fully emotionally invested and you're like, but actually now I want to change this.
But then you think like, oh, you're just a doctor and you tell everyone that their kids are like doing great or like they look, they look cute.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like you're just, you're bullshit.
I had my, uh, who's helping me, helped me get through it. And he confirmed that he was an investment banker. He'd done 100. Plus transaction. He's like, yeah, these guys are the, the both of them, Facebook and Amazon. If they give you an offer, they're solid on that. That will be the deal that goes through. There will be, if they doesn't close, it's because you didn't disclose something that you then come out later with, or you change your mind. It's not going to be because of them. That's the good news of these big companies. The bad news is deals get hung up or delayed for all kinds of terrible reasons. Um, so, so, you know, I, I just sort of expect a deal is always going to go slower than you want. Is most likely going to fall through. And even when a deal happens, it's going to break up twice before it happens. That is the rule of thumb. And so I got to do it. I got some great advice from Balaji when I was doing the Milk Road sale. We had a couple offers and one offer was higher on the money and the other offer was a little lower on the money, or like, you know, I would say, what was it like 25% lower on money or something like that? Let's say. And he goes, okay, well, you're saying you're,, you know, you want to take the higher deal. That makes sense. But let me ask you one question. And he goes, are both of these deals at the same point? Meaning, have they both been, have you been talking to them about the same amount of time? Have they done the same amount of diligence so far? Have you gone back and forth the same amount of times with them? I said, no, no, no. The lower deal we've gone all the way through and this higher deal where it, he just came on super, you know, they came on super fast and they were really eager and we got the deal done fast. I was kind of excited, like, These guys seem really committed because they're, they're, they're, they're moving really quickly here. And he goes, okay, so you need to apply a discount then. He goes, the offer is not 25% higher. In fact, it's probably half as high. Once you apply the discount of this deal doesn't, doesn't close or falls through, you're going to turn down an offer that's solid for an offer that might be slightly higher, but hasn't done the two fall-throughs yet. And so he's like, you need to apply discount. He's like, if I, if I'm honest, if I'm discounting this, it's at least 50% based off of just the normal way that M&A deals work. This deal will not be the exact deal that closes if it closes at all. And that was very sage advice. And it ended up, it ended up playing exactly out. We tried to go with the higher offer and then sure enough, more stuff came out of the woodwork that gave us hesitation. And then we were like, look, this is not as solid as we initially thought. Or like, you know, the, we can't just take the headline numbers. We have to take into consideration the ability to close and the credibility to close. And that changed the calculus.
And the way you get around that is you say the bad things upfront. I think as best as you can, you say anything that will ruin it as early in the process versus as late in the process.
This was great advice you gave me. You gave me this advice when we were going through the Milk Road process. You go, here's what you're going to do. Because I was going to dinner with them and I said, you said, here's what you're going to do. You're going to go there and you're going to say the following. You're going to say, Awesome. Sounds like we're all excited. Now I'm gonna tell you every reason you should not buy this company. I'm gonna show you every skeleton in the closet now to save ourselves some pain later. And if anything in here scares you, I'm happy to either explain it or if it just doesn't work, then, you know, you, we can know now. And I was like, well, that's the opposite of how I would've naturally approached it. So, so tell me more. And then I did exactly that. And after the deal went, so we, we did that. And then after the deal went through, We did a postmortem like, hey, that's how you know these buyers are smart. They're like, what could we have done differently in our buy? And I said, same. What could we have done differently in the sale? And they were like, one of the best things you did was at that dinner when you just told us anything that was bad about the company and you just proactively said, here's all the skeletons in our closet or anything that might look ugly to you. He goes, that built so much trust for us that, and he's like, from there we weren't even like, we weren't worried about those things because it built so much trust.
And, um, it's a very selfish thing.
You gotta do it in a non-manipulative way. You can't actually do that and then leave out the real skeletons. That shit's like the opposite of trust. Um, so, so that definitely worked and got confirmed on the other side.
But it's a, it's a, it's a win-win scenario, which is you, uh, get the deal done hopefully faster than, than slower.
And also it makes them trust you, which, or the third option, which is You find out earlier that this shit's not gonna work and you move on. You don't waste 3 months of time, you know, dragging it out when you would've, you could've known that upfront if, if Bowties had been more honest.
I agree. All right, Ben, what do you say?
All right, next question is, do you have any updates to Sarah's List or any new additions?
So Sarah's List is this list, it's named after my, my wife because it's at this point it's just its own name, but basically we made a list of companies where you could join and have a safe job, meaning you're hopefully not going to get laid off like you would at a 10-person startup or go out of business. You can still get paid a lot in salary and then still have like maternity, paternity leave and have a lot of these perks and benefits. And also your stock, I think our requirement is could 10x.
Is it 10x? So basically, basically it's based off your real, real story. Sarah joined Facebook, she joined Airbnb, and she joined them not like super early when they were just still in their, you know, their apartment trying to figure it out. It was like it was, it was working. This is a business that was already valued at, you know, let's say $1 billion or more. And so it was a multibillion-dollar company already. You get the fat salary, you get the oat milk, unlimited oat milk on tap in the, in the break room. You get the maternity leave, you get everything you would want, but also you get a stock package that even if you're not even like an AI engineer, like let's say you're getting, uh, $70K a year of stock. Um, if that thing 5Xs, you could become a millionaire without ever having done the startup route, just in a 4-year vest cycle. And so, and that was your wife's story. It was inspiring to me and to you. It's like, I feel like nobody talks about this, but you have to correctly identify the companies that can 4 or 5X in the next 4 years. And so we have this list. So anyways, they want an update on that list. But there's a YouTube video of the last time we did Sarah's List and we—
I think we've done it twice.
We've done it twice. And we actually updated that, hey, a bunch of the companies we said the first time, sure enough, I think the average multiple was like, you know, in exactly the range that we had talked about. So now I actually think it's the opposite. I'm calling it Sarah's Exodus. Basically, there's a whole bunch of companies that raised money in 2020, 2021. That were at valuations that worked when the economy was different, the stock market was different, inflation was different, interest rates were different. And now those companies, it'll take years to get back to that same valuation, if that. And so now I think it's Sarah's Exodus, which is what are the companies where you just have zombie equity? You are so far underwater on the value of your shares that not only will it not 4 or 5x, It's not even going to 1x. You won't even get what you think it's worth today. And you're going to sit there for 4 years earning that useless stock. And so I actually think you have to make the opposite list. What companies raised too much at the wrong time, at the wrong valuation that are basically upside down.
And, uh, and you basically will go to TechCrunch and you put year— when did the bull market basically start?
2020 and 2021 as the peak, maybe even a little 2019.
And go through TechCrunch and do sort by like year, search, and anything unicorn. Yeah, yeah. And anything that became a unicorn in that era, assume that the likelihood is, is—
until proven otherwise, right? Go to, go to your CEO and say, hey, what is the fair market value? What is the actual fair market value of this company right now? Um, what's the last— what is the last money we raised at? How much total money have we raised? Oh, we've raised $600 million. Okay, so we'd have to sell The first $600 million if we sold would just go back to the investors. It goes into nothing to, to employees.
And how much secondary did you take? And what type of G-Wagon do you have? What color is your G-Wagon? Yeah. Yeah. You figure out those things. Did I ever tell you the craziest— so you were talking about like going to these big companies and you can get like all-you-can-eat food and shit like that. Can I tell you about the craziest thing at Airbnb? So if you go to their, they have like a cafeteria. Their whole shtick was that every single thing from the ketchup and mayonnaise to the Coca-Cola to the all the condiments, the trail mix, everything was made in-house on premises when there was an office. All the food was made right there on the spot and it was amazing.
There was a— that's amazing. I remember the same thing happened at, what's it called? Zinga. I went to Zinga. I met the head chef at Zinga and he ran— the chef was a manager of like 40 people. That was the culinary team. The internal culinary team was 40 people at Zynga. You show up at Zynga, first of all, there's like 94 dogs running around. Insane amount of dogs. Their logo's a dog and there's 2 dogs for every 1 employee there. Secondly, 40-person—
like a dog fighting pit in the middle. Like people, like when times got a little old, Facebook made the algorithm change.
Yeah. There was a little dog fighting ring that brewed up on the second floor. And I went into the kitchen and I was walking around and he's like, yeah, we do our own butchering. And he opens this fridge that was like a 40-foot fridge and there was just cows hanging upside down. I was like, you're going to break that down? He's like, yeah, I break that down every morning. Oh, what's this on tap? There's no label. He's like, that's my homemade kombucha. We make our own. We brew our own drinks. We make our own food. The veggies that you see, that mushroom, it grows on the roof here. And then during the tour, I got a little hungry, reached into the pocket, had some Cheez-Its. I opened up the bag. Dude, they heard the crinkling of a packaged good in that kitchen. The whole kitchen froze.
It's the best, right?
It was like I said bomb on a plane, dude. I was like, I'm so sorry. I don't know how this got here. I don't know what this is. Who put this in my pocket?
Did they still have it, you think? Of course they don't now, but—
Hell no. They don't even have the building. Dude, the whole building got sold.
I think the building sold for more than the company was worth at the time. I think if you Google Zinga building, they owned this building in San Francisco, and I think they sold it for $250 million at the time when the market cap of the company was $200 million.
Yeah, it was either that or more profit than they'd ever generated. It was one of those two. And yeah, now it's owned by, uh, Take-Two, who makes Grand Theft Auto and NBA 2K. They own Zynga now.
Yeah, I like those, those chef companies. So like Sarah's List, I, I think you got to go get, get yourself—
you're not dating somebody who works at a tech company with all-you-can-eat food. What are you doing?
What's the point? No perks, bro.
What are the perks?
Yeah, what are the attributes of this relationship? You know what I mean? You need to bring some attributes. You better be, uh, you know, the like starving artists, extra hot, or you have a company that has all you can eat buffet.
You should have seen how many Clif Bars. I was like a, like, I was the Pablo Escobar of smuggling Clif Bars out of tech companies for like a 3-year period.
I had free prosciutto for a year. I used to like, I used to, I used to call it prosciutto.
I didn't even know what it was. I was like, finest prosciutto in all the land.
Dude, I used to send her to work with Tupperware containers and tell her to bring, make sure you stay till 7 because I know they serve a dinner there. Why are you home so early? I know that Facebook Dinner didn't start until 5:30. It takes you an hour to get home. Where's my prosciutto? Uh, Ben, what do you say? What do we got?
Do you have any frameworks for maintaining healthy friendships, especially when you're separated by distance?
Mine's simple. I'm in the phase of life right now, I've got one simple phrase when it comes to friends: no new friends. If you're in, you're in. It's a mental model for you. Yeah, here's your mental model. Say no to everything. If you in, you in. If you ain't, you ain't. What's yours? Yeah, I'm the same. I suck at this.
Uh, I apologize to my friends. I, I'm a shitty friend to them. They know it. I, I do feel bad about it. Uh, but you could only try to be great at, at so many things at once. And okay, I got kids, so—
but what are you still picking? Which thing you're gonna be great at? Which one's it gonna be?
Try to be a great dad, try to make a bunch of money, and then try to get into incredible shape. Those are the things I've prioritized right now. And so, uh, You know, friends had to take a little bit of a hit there.
All right, you loser. What do you say, Ben? What do we got?
If you were to start a business based on the quirkiest or most ridiculous idea that you've ever had, what would it be and why?
Yours is actually good, Sean.
Yeah. Did you have an answer for this?
No, because I'm not like that quirky of a person. Say yours. The IQ test is actually a good idea.
Uh, all right. So I, so I remember I met a guy who would sell stars, like literally like a star in the solar system for $25. He would name it after you. And I think he would just name it in his own database. And then there's, then I saw this, there's this guy who's just been crushing on TikTok. I don't know if you've seen these TikTok ads where you, he will, they own a small piece of land in like Dublin or something, something like that. And you will officially be knighted as a sir, like you'll get an official title as sir and you will own a piece, like a plant on this land, like a 1-foot by 1-foot, you know, like plot of land. So when I saw things like that, you know, there's really 2 reactions. There's most people who eye-roll and say, this is what's wrong with the world. And then there's me who's like, man, what's wrong with me? Why haven't I done this? And that's kind of where I'm at. So I would love to, just take time to do some of these stupid things. Like I wanna be the Pet Rock guy or like the Million Dollar Homepage guy. I think that would just be a lot of fun as a challenge. I have an idea, which is, I wanna create a new IQ test. 'Cause like, who doesn't wanna seem like they have high, you know, like a high IQ? I, so I think you could build like a D2C IQ test that people would pay to see how, what, how they score. Or just go all in on something super woo woo, like horoscopes, crystals, something like that. I actually launched a D2C crystal brand, like an e-commerce brand. For a month. And, um, now that I look back, now that I know what actually, how e-commerce works, that brand was actually working. I was just too big of a noob to even understand, like, is this good or bad?
Like, why is it good? Because people can't return it?
No, no, I just mean like it was working. Like, uh, I was acquiring customers at a good rate. Like the, I mean, all e-commerce is basically CAC versus LTV. It's just what's the lifetime value of a customer, the LTV compared to the CAC, the cost of acquiring that customer. And actually my LTV to CAC was actually good. I just didn't really understand it enough at the time and didn't trust it enough at the time. But my first e-com biz before the one I made was a crystal one. Like in my garage right now, I have like 4,000 rose quartz coasters still just because I didn't sell, I didn't move that inventory. I shut it down.
How much did it cost for you to buy and to sell?
Oh dude, these are very cheap to buy. Like You know, the gross margins are like 75, 80%. So, you know, you buy it for $2, you sell it for $10. It's just like round math, right? But like in reality you're selling it for $24 and you're buying it for whatever that math turns out to.
Dude, that's wild. But like also you don't wanna be a fraud, which, hey, if you're selling crystals, I mean, fraud is in the eye of the believer, as I say.
And there are a lot of people who believe that crystals are good and help them. The reason I had this idea—
I'm not one of them, but I'll sell it to them.
I went and I read, I opened up a magazine, like Cosmo or one of these magazines. I was like, okay, I'm going to go look outside of my normal box for new ideas. So I went and opened up Cosmo, and there's this two-page spread about crystals. And it was basically like, Adele will not go on stage until she uses her rose quartz crystal thing. Kim Kardashian, after she got mugged for her $4 million, uh, diamond ring— I don't know if you remember this— she claims that crystals were one of the, like, only things that kept her anxiety down and soothed her, and she keeps one in her bag at all times. Gwyneth Paltrow from Goop, I mean, obviously huge into crystals. Do I even need to explain? Uh, so there was like this huge number of, like, celebrity female influencers.
Well, and there's the Adam Sandler movie with Kevin Garnett where he, like, buys that, you know, million-dollar black crystal.
That's right. That's right. That came out late after I'd done that. But, but yeah, I basically saw, I was like, oh, if, if Kardashian, Adele, and like whatever, Jennifer Aniston or whoever these people are, like, if they're all into crystals, like, trust me, you know, the perfect e-commerce customer, a woman in the Midwest, is going to buy this stuff. And it was actually working.
Some chick named Kinsey. Yeah. So, you know, Kinsey in Idaho, she wants to buy the shit out of your rocks. Yeah. Like if you have, if you have like a sign that says simplify or I love us, you're, you're gonna be one of my customers. All right, Ben, what do you say? Where are we at?
All right.
That one was mostly for Sean. This one is mostly for Sam, which is what were the first 5 big boy moves you made at Hampton?
The first thing I did—
by the way, Ben, you gotta say these guys' names. People who ask these questions, just Joe Watkins.
Yeah, Joe, Joe Watkins, he asked about Hampton. I don't know about the first 5, but I didn't buy a domain name. It was just Hampton at Hampton.squarespace.com. And I sent the link to a bunch of friends and then they sent it to a handful of other friends. And then I just reached out to tons of people. People would sign up on that page, which it was just a Typeform. And then I called every single person and I interviewed them. And me and Joe, Joe did like the backend stuff, but I did the frontend stuff of like calling all the potential customers. And I must have interviewed 100 100 to 200 people. And, uh, I was the one that sold and got us the first million dollars of sales. And so I called it, uh, I told, I would joke and tell Sean my calendar looked like a zebra. It was just like constant stripes of like these 30-minute meetings with the 10-minute break, 30-minute meetings, 10-minute break. And I did hundreds of them and I got us to a million dollars in sales. Um, that's a good question. Probably just laid on the couch and think, I hate this and I'm so excited when it'll be over one day. Um, like, I mean, it's, it's really hard work. It's very challenging. Um, and then another big thing I did was I hired a CEO because very early on I thought this thing is going to be bigger than I'm— this thing will exceed my personal capabilities and skill sets very soon. So I should hire a CEO. But getting the first million dollars in sales is what I did for like 2 months.
I would say the other thing you did is you, uh, you nailed the brand and the name, um, which is that's art, that's talent. But I think that, you know, a name won't break you, but it can make you. I think Hampton is a perfect name because you borrowed the prestige of the actual Hamptons and you hired an agency to do like a nice job with the branding or whatever. So I think that was also—
that agency I hired was $15,000. And basically what I did was I sent them a whole bunch of really old Rolex ads. And I also said my favorite color is British Racing Green. 'Cause that's like my, I love that color. It's like a lot of old cars are British. It's a devastating purple also. No, it's British Racing Green. I love, like I've had motorcycles in that color. I have all types of like toys in that color. I like that color. I go, make it look like an old Rolex ad and make it and use British Racing Green. And that's kind of how it came to be.
And $15,000 for you to spend $15,000, like give people a sense of like, Is that just nothing for you? Are you just like— let's just say this.
You sweat that. Last Saturday, I drove 20 minutes to return a spatula to Target for $7. So, yeah, I'm a tightwad.
I was the kind of guy that licks his finger before he, you know, gets out a one to make sure there's not a second one stuck on there.
That's hilarious. Um, all right, what do we got?
All right, next up is, uh, this is from Josh Redd who wants to know, what are the 3 most common small boy moves that you see?
All right, so we have this phrase, no, no small boy stuff. Okay. What, what is small boy stuff? The first rule obviously is if you think it might be small boy stuff, it is. But besides that, I would say there's the 3 big ones. The 3 big buckets are the 3 W's. Waiting, worrying, and wanting. Anytime you find yourself waiting to do something that you actually want to do, that's a small boy move. That's a small boy mentality. You're focused on the wrong things. Worrying, same way. Worrying hasn't done anyone a lot of good. You got to know how to do worry. I think Sam's worry time is a fantastic framework for that. So go look up Sam worry time. And wanting, wanting, meaning like wanting what other people have, And really, people are their happiest when they're grateful, meaning they want what they have versus wanting what they don't have. And so I think that if you find yourself in a state of mind you don't want to be in, in that small boy state of mind, it's because you're probably waiting to do the thing you actually want to do. You're worrying about something that might happen that might be bad, or you're wanting something that you don't have that other people have. You're being bitter, you're being jealous, or so on and so forth. So to me, the 3 Ws kind of capture most of the things that are small boy activities.
Have you ever heard this phrase? This is, we're going to get a little Sigmund Freud on your ass. External locus of control. Do you know what that means?
I've heard this phrase many times and I never have any idea what this means. Locus is a bug. That's where I started. And you tell me where to go from there.
Yeah, you're totally wrong. But so an internal locus of control means that, well, let's say an external locus of control means the way that you feel and the position that you are in your life, it's because of everyone else. So if you have an external locus of control, you think I am in a bad mood because the traffic is bad and it's their fault, or I am, I'm poor because the government won't help me, or everyone's out to get me. Internal is the opposite, which is I control how I feel and what I do and where I am in life. And so I think that there's a direct correlation between like, like what I consider like a small boy thing of that internal versus external locus of control. So anything that is, when you say I am the way I am because I choose to be, or I put myself in this position, I think oftentimes that's when you're more on that spectrum. I think it's better than when you are, when you're focused on external. So anything where it's like, I have to wait until, uh, this is ready, or, or I have to, um, um, please these types of people or whatever. That's typically, I think, a loser mentality.
Yeah, 100%. I, I, I was actually telling somebody this yesterday and, uh, I was like, where, where do you think the power lives in this scenario? Let's say there's a plant that's not growing. Um, where, where, where's the problem? And you know, where, what do you suspect the problem is? They're like, well, I mean, it could be the soil. All right. So soil. So it's the environment. That's the reason that, uh, that the plants aren't growing. No, no. Maybe it was just a bad seed. Oh, so it was kind of like the genetics of, of the seed that, that you would blame for, for the outcome. No, no, no. It's just not getting enough sunlight cuz there's other plants blocking it. Oh, so it's others, it's competitors that are taking the finite resource that you, you can't have. What is it? What is it that— where is the problem? And the answer is really, there is no problem. You are the plant. Just fucking grow. Don't blame anything. Don't feel lack in any one of those areas. Ultimately, you want to be the plant that can grow in any one of those, under any conditions, from any seed, in any soil, with any sunlight, in any competition. And so what I find is that I get along least with people who really like over-index on— they always blame the soil. It's always the city's fault. It's always the school's fault. It's always the environment's fault. Or people who, oh, it's genetics. I'm fixed. It is the way it is. Or, oh, it's the competition. They're always taking my things. Right? It's like, those are the people I get along with the least. And even in myself, when I find myself thinking that way, I get along with myself the least. I hate myself the most. When I think that way.
See, you, you didn't know what it meant, but you, you came to the same conclusion that, you know, hundreds of, of years worth of psychologists, it took them to figure it out.
Thousands of years of wisdom, I just sort of on an afternoon just come up with a better version myself, and then I, then I find the words to describe it and use a better analogy.
Uh, all right, Ben, what do you say? Where are we at?
All right, we got an emotional one. Ladies and gentlemen, grab your tissues. Sam, what is, in your opinion, the greatest quality that Sean has? Sean, same question. What is the greatest quality that Sam has? That's a question from Griffin Humphrey.
Griffin, good question. Sean's greatest quality is, uh, I feel like I don't want to look you in the eye when I'm talking to you right now.
Sam just closed his eyes. Should I close my eyes too?
It's like, it's like, wait. There's a ton of ways that I can take this analogy. I'm not really going to take it.
It's like when you're sitting at a table and somebody puts their palms out like this and then you're supposed to put your hands in theirs.
Yeah. That's weird. You don't look people in the eye when you're doing that. Just like complimenting each other and going to the bathroom. Eye contact, it doesn't exist. We need a shed side by side.
Urinal mode.
There we go. Yeah. Just the conversation. Have you ever noticed when you go to the bathroom with someone, even if you're walking to the bathroom together, As soon as the fly goes down, the conversation stops. Yeah, the fly in your zipper is like the off button, and then you shake and you go back and the fly goes up. Up. Yeah, you're just right back to the conversation. That's what this is like. Sean Best's attribute is that his attitude is always positive. So I don't think I've ever been able to not that I've done it on purpose, but I've never gotten him rattled. And he's very, very, very pleasant. I think almost 100% of the time. I've never seen him get upset about stuff. And that is actually frustrating about him, is that he doesn't get frustrated sometimes. But at the same time, I would rather have that because I'm fairly emotional and I get frustrated easily. He never gets frustrated. And so I would say that's his best characteristic.
Internal locus of control, baby.
Yeah, you, you control your inner locus mindset. Yeah, the locus is inside of you all the time. It never goes outside of you. You have— you, you, you— it's in you. So I would say that's easily your best attribute, is the ability to stay calm and happy no matter what.
Mine for you would be intensity. I think you do a great job cranking the knob up. Whenever you are into something. I admire that. And when I look at all the things that I admire about you, like the way you're self-actualized in terms of fitness, or the way you built The Hustle, or the way you're building Hampton right now, the common denominator is the level of intensity you bring to it. So I don't think there's really anything else. It's not like I'm like, oh, the reason— again, it's that internal locus of control. It's not like I'm like, Sam's, Sam got lucky because of this, or he's got people helping him and that's why he is winning, or he's just born with some talents that others don't have. It's like, I think you just have a better job at cranking the intensity to 12 when it's time to, if you're like, I'm gonna get in shape, you're like, great, inject my butt with TRT, build a home gym, hire, hire a personal trainer, hire a coach, buy the best equipment, do the wake up every day, do the program. When I'm doing the workout, I'm pushing myself to my actual max. And then I'm doing this, I'm measuring everything, I'm posting publicly, so I'm ashamed if I don't do it. You go the full way. And it's like the same thing with Hampton. I told you this, like I had had a very similar idea for a peer group thing years ago. I kind of dabbled with it, tried it, created one. It was actually going pretty well, but then I was like, ah, shiny object over here. Got kind of bored, decided, didn't really think it was the right thing. Didn't really see the big picture. To see you take that same idea and do it at level 12 intensity. Is such a gift for me because it's like I get to see a without intensity approach to the same idea and a with intensity approach to the same idea, and it just shows what the difference is. And that is the difference. And so to me that, and I also wrote Sam's got a code and he lives by it. I think you're a lot more honorable than most and definitely than me. And so I kind of admire that too.
What code? I don't, I don't view myself as having a code necessarily.
Do you feel like when you give someone your word that it's done?
Yeah, it's for life.
Do you feel like that if someone's your friend, they should fight for you and die for you? And any small slight is a, like, like a loyal stab to the heart.
I feel like if we're in public and you get in a fight with someone and you throw a punch, even though it's your fault, we Got the fight. Yeah. The person's— it is over. And then afterwards I'll be like, you're an idiot. That was really inappropriate. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel— I disagree privately, publicly. Like we die together.
Yeah. The same thing showing up on time. Like I feel you have a code. I don't even agree with your whole code. I think you're crazy with some things when you go chase down people that broke in because you're like, no, you broke in. Now we fight. We duel. I'm like, that's stupid, Sam. You should not do that. Or you're like, This guy's trying to charge me an extra $100 because of whatever. No, we, we're taking him to petty court. And I'm like, Sam, it's not worth it, man. Let it go. So I disagree with your code, but I love that you have a code. 'Cause I don't think I really have a code to live by.
All right, what do we got?
All right, really quick, let me just tell you guys the last questions and you say what, what you want to do, what you don't. So we got, uh, creatorpreneurs you're paying attention to. We got pros and cons of building in public.
Let, let's do creative one really quick. Yeah. Who are the creative creatorpreneurs? That's kind of a weird one. Creatorpreneurs you are paying attention to and why. I like Isaac French because he's got an awesome name.
Creatorpreneur is someone who's like creating content, but they're also an entrepreneur. They're building a business around their podcast or their YouTube or their Twitter or whatever. That's what it is.
I like Isaac French. I hung out with him and I was like, why are you so purposeful with everything you do? He goes, That's just part of our religion. We feel that like we just have to be excellent and that's how we show that God's great. And I was like, oh, okay. So like, you're not going to bet against that.
Yeah.
Yeah. I like Jasmine Star. There's a woman who has a, she's got a software company. I've met her through Hampton and whenever I hang out with her, I feel like I'm going to cry. Like she's so intense. And she's like, she describes herself as like a Latina woman from like I think East LA, and she's like, so like, I'm going to like crush all these tech nerds. And I love that attitude. Um, and I like Jason Yanowitz and Austin Reef. Jason Yanowitz runs Blockworks, a crypto company that just raised some money. I would never bet against him. And then Austin Reef, as I've gotten to know Austin Reef, the founder of Morning Brew, do you agree with me? That guy's a straight stone cold killer. I would never bet against Austin. He's, I would never bet against him.
He's really impressive. And actually my, opinion of Morning Brew because I was friends with you. So same, you know, the loyalty test. I was friends with you, therefore your enemies are my enemies. And when you were doing The Hustle, I was like, okay, so who are the other newsletters? Those are my enemies. Someone go look up their founders and they're on my shit list. And now Austin is a friend and I actually really think that guy's awesome and he's super clever. And, um, there's a bunch of people that are like successful, but stupid. He's not one of them.
He's smart.
He is not one of them. He's, he's, he's real. Um, so he's, you know, I give him my, my credit card.
And he's young. I always forget this. I think he's only 27 still. Um, I think he'll have north of $100 million before he is 30 years old is my guess.
And he is got a mean lefty hook shot. All right. So, um, my creatorpreneurs that I'm looking at, so I try to look at people that are in different bubbles cuz I think if I just look at other business content creator entrepreneur people, I will become the lame Twitter thread boy copycat wannabe bitch boy. That's what I tell myself in my head. So where do I go look instead? I look at creators in other categories. So I'll give you a quick example. We had Danny Austin on the pod recently, and actually a bunch of people who were listening to it, I saw a bunch of feedback that was like, oh, this episode wasn't for me. Instagram influencer, who cares? And I was like, you guys are missing the point.
Like, um, yeah, she's way more sophisticated.
Yeah. I was like, uh, the goal, there was a good, there was golden nuggets there. So at first I subscribed to her content because when you look at what mommy influencers on Instagram do, it's a whole different style of content that you can kind of steal ideas from and get inspiration from. That's the first thing. The second thing was every other mom influencer created like, oh, my fashion brand is here. Buy my dresses for the summer, buy my swimsuits, but whatever, same. Same, same, same, same merch and fashion apparel. She picked an incredible business, which is this scalp care thing that was perfectly aligned with her story of why she's famous in the first place and why people connect with her. It's this high margin thing with only a couple of SKUs. Doesn't have any of the headaches of fashion. It's a beautiful business and it's crushing. Does, you know, $40 million last year in revenue without even, you know, pretty significant, without even like a lot of ad spend. And so to me, there was a nugget of gold, which is what happens when you align the perfect project selection. Like, that's an example of perfect project selection paired with awesome content creator.
What, what could that business sell for?
That should be a, a multi-hundred million dollar business. Like, that should be a $250 million business if they just carry on. Wow. That, that is a, it's perfect project selection. I like couldn't admire it more. Perfectly aligned with her and it's a beautiful business on its own. Others that are more in our niche. So Pomp, I'm inspired by his level of output. The guy's a machine. I'm super weak and inconsistent with output and he is super regimented. I think he's ex-military too, so he is super regimented with output. And I'm also interested in how he's redefining himself. He's rebranding himself outside of Bitcoin right now, and that's something cool to watch. So I want to see what he does and what works, what doesn't there. Um, Tim Ferriss, also very different than me. He's ultra thoughtful about his brand, which is the opposite of me. Like he's measured, he's thoughtful, he cites his sources. He is like, he does not say yes to a lot of things. He's very picky and choosy. He's the opposite of me in every way. So I like to see what he does 'cause I wanna like, you know, I wanna learn through, learn from people who have different play styles. And then Steve Bartlett, same thing. He's high style. So everything Steve Bartlett does is cool. I buy a hat, he buys a hat. Mine looks shitty, his looks awesome.
Well, he's also like a 6'1", like pretty ripped looking black guy. I mean, of course he looks awesome.
Everything he does is in style. The way he talks is in style. The way his podcast trailers are done in style, his live podcast show, he's got a gospel choir singing as he's talking or some shit like that. I don't even know. I don't even understand it.. But I just know that what this guy does, he does in style. I think there's very few people, just like I think there's very few people in business who are funny. I think there's very few people in business that have style. And so I kind of, I'm looking and watching what they're doing and picking little pieces from their game.
Dude, I always look at Steve McQueen. You know who Steve McQueen is? He's like this actor that he's dead now, but they call him like the King of Cool. And I like look at clothes that he wore and then everyone wants to dress like him. And then you see like on Reddit, someone's like, oh, I tried, I bought the Steve McQueen outfit. And you look at them and you're like, Oh, you look like, you look like store brand Steve McQueen. Like, you know, like that ain't good. Sometimes people just look like— I'll look at Brad Pitt and I'll look at his clothes and then I'll like see people try to dress like him. I'm like, dude, you just don't got it. You know what I mean? Like, no matter what I do, I will never— you're just better looking than me. You just, you got, you got the bod. That's sometimes that's how I still feel about some of these guys. And I guess we'll put Steve in the category when you're, when you got that bod and you got that face, you're that tall. You know, you're going to look good no matter what.
Fair enough.
Here's a really quick one. Someone said, they asked a different question, but I'm going to phrase it. They asked one question, I'm going to phrase it differently, which is, who do you want to live with? Gary Vaynerchuk, Elon Musk, and MrBeast. And I wanted to say something. I think they all would be horrible to live with. Those, all three of those guys would be the worst roommates.
Yeah, totally. Only Elon, because he'll just never be there. Actually, that's the best roommate. The guy who's just got the empty room and you actually got a, You're living in a double, but it's all yours. That's actually a pretty good deal.
I've lived with a handful of highly successful people and I've hung out with them. I hate going to their house. Their homes are usually a wreck. I hate it.
I would not live with any of these guys. If I turned the camera around in this office right now, people would unsubscribe. The gentleman agreement would be over. People would be like, I never want to hear from this guy again. If somebody lives like this, Think of your worst episode of Hoarders. That's currently what my office looks like. It's, it's an absolute mess.
That's disgusting to me. How do you live that way?
I just do, bro. I just do. I don't know. I, I, I don't know how I live with myself like this. This is crazy. I don't want to be my own room.
Your, your room's like a mullet, man. It looks great, like from this angle, but you got all this party nonsense in the back.
Exactly. Well, after I record this, I just leave this room and so I never come back and clean it.
I can't stand that. That's filth to me. I would not, I could not be around that. Is that it? Are we done, Ben? Did we do a good job?
I want to ask one more. I want to ask one more. All right. Because why not? Kevin Newman asks, who are the three folks? He doesn't have three, but who are the people that are having the most fun? I love this question. I think about it all the time because you could ask like, who's the most successful? Who's the smartest? Who's the most popular? I'm interested in having a lot of fun with my life. I only have so much time on this little planet. I want to have fun with it. I want to enjoy it. And so I think this is a great question to ask. I got a couple answers, but I would be really curious to hear yours because I think yours would be very different than mine. Does anybody come to mind off top of your head?
And say a few more words about that.
Rob Dyrdek, when I think of what I want my life to be, it's basically to have a fantasy factory. So Rob Dyrdek, by the way, he talked a lot about his wife. Not only does she seem awesome, former Playmate model.
Not only does she seem awesome, she looks awesome.
Yeah. No, Rob Dyrdek, he, um, I think he has a ton of fun and I think that he, I think he views, I like people who view business a little bit like an art instead of like a McKinsey, like spreadsheet dork. And I think that this is his art. This is how he expresses himself. And I think he has a shitload of fun in the way that he's broke. He had an episode on Fantasy Factory where he like broke 9 world records or something like that. Just cause I love people who do just dumb stuff just because it seems fun. So I think Rob Dyrdek is up there. You have Joe Rogan. He seems like he's living his life by his own terms.
If you take Joe Rogan, you're like, all right, what are the 5 things you most enjoy doing? He's like, well, I love comedy, love UFC. I love talking to smart people and learning new shit. I love hunting. And then he's just like, cool, that's my life. He integrated his career, his life, and his friends to be the same thing. Like, his friends are other comedians. And then it's like, and people in the UFC, his career, he's like, oh, well, I'll just be the top broadcaster in the UFC, the top podcaster, and then I'll be one of the top touring comedians. Like, that sounds great. Like, then I'll make a bunch of money and I'll get to do my art. Like, that sounds fun. And then, and he drew boundaries. He's like, yeah, I love the UFC, but I'm not traveling to like Senegal for this pay-per-view. Like, I only do the ones that are like within a 2-hour flight of me. That's it. Like that's my rule and I'm just going to do that and I'm okay with not doing the rest. And I love that you said he's, yeah, he's not divorced. It seems like he's got his head on straight. Like I really think he's having a lot of fun. I admire that. Bill Simmons is kind of the same way. He's basically that for sports. And then my Uncle Vinny, I got an Uncle Vinny who's literally his nickname that was given to him was Smiley. So he signs all his signatures, Vinny, quote, Smiley. And he's just, or he'll just sign it Smiley.
And then like this is what people he just met in the banks, like I'm like, uh, sir, I don't think you could do that.
He's, I don't know, 70-something years old. And if you hear him, he's like, I'm getting younger every day. He's like, I'm so excited. He wakes up at 4 in the morning with no alarm because he's so excited about the day. And like, even though the things he was, he's doing, like, he's like, I'm so excited. I'm doing this webinar about multifamily real estate right now. It's like, it's not what I would enjoy doing. And it's not even something that to the outside sounds super glamorous. But the point is he is excited about it. He is having the most fun in his life. He wears what he wants. He dresses the way he wants. He talks the way he wants. He does what he wants with his time. He travels the way he wants. And I just feel like that guy, his joy meter is permanently stuck on max. And so I kind of admire that because with Joe Rogan, it's easy to say, man, yeah, if I also had the best podcast and the UFC and all these hobbies and great friends, Yeah, I would be having a lot of fun too. And my Uncle Vinny's a great example because he doesn't have anything that like is the, he doesn't have a lifestyle that's like, you know, some celebrity or something like that. And he's having all the fun like now. And I think that's great because he's not waiting to achieve all this shit to have fun. He's having it now.
What type of Indian guy has the name of Vinny? Is that a, are those real names? Vinod.
Vinod. Then he went Vinny to like make it more like acceptable in America when he moved here. and then they just were like, bro, this guy never stops smiling. So his whole company just called him Smiley. And then, you know, that was like, that was the whole thing.
We, we named one time in Austin, we had this really bad office that had rats and we nick— and we had 'em and we nicknamed Vinny and Vinny was an Italian guy, like, and they would come in at night like, oh, hey, the fat guy left us some cheese. And that was the name of our office rat was Vinny and he, Vinny, Vinny from New York. And that's what I think of my fitness.
If you haven't named an office Rat or Mouse, you haven't grinded.
Have you lived?
You're not on that grind.
All right. Q&A. This is the easiest stuff ever to talk about. So maybe we just do this every time. Now I know why Gary Vaynerchuk did that. The whole show was Ask Gary Vee. All you have to do is just like answer dumb questions.
Yeah, this was fun. We should do more.
Um, all right, that's the pod. Yeah, I feel like I could rule the world.
I know I could be what I want to.
I put my all in it like no days off. On the road, let's travel, never looking back.