#13 - He Made Millions From... Blankets, Bean Bags & Candles?

This is the secret. Everyone focuses on other shit that doesn't matter. What's your conversion rate? Or this, or like this. It's like, wait, what are you selling? And whenever I sit down, I always talk about the product because that shit is the most exciting. That's why we're here. That's what we're selling. I'm not selling some arbitrage on Facebook or like access to an email list or some sale. It's like, no, no, no. It's so fucking simple. I make the best beanbag ever.

That's it. That's why we're here. Thank you for coming.

I appreciate it. Yeah, no, thanks for having me.

I got a message from my friend Zach, who's over at Founders Fund. And the good thing is when I started the podcast, it was just my friends.

Mm-hmm.

So I was like, okay, I know I can have like these 10 guests on. These are my friends. I know they have good stories. And I was like, I don't know what I'll do after that. But the good thing was that Zach and others basically, once they heard a few episodes, they're like, oh, you've gotta have this person on the podcast. And so he sent me one of those emails. Oh, you've gotta have John on the podcast. So you are the founder of, I don't know what the company's actually called, but the product I've seen, seen for years called the Gravity Blanket. What's the actual company called?

Yeah, so basically there's Gravity Blankets, MoonPod, and then this new one called Birthdate Candle. So I guess I have, you know, my John Holdco thing. Yep. And I'll spin up these companies and kind of do it product by product and put a team around them and then sort of walk away or grow it or whatever. So Gravity is its own beast and monster with a partner. MoonPod, I have a team running that one. And then this new one, Earthdate Candle, also a team on that one. Right. And it's all of these little things and, you know, they're spinning 'em up, running 'em, doubling down on what's working, and then continuing to iterate and launch. Right. And double down.

Awesome. So I'm excited because I have a few different business fantasies. Okay. People have sexual fantasies. They, you know, they wanna role play, they wanna do whatever.

Uh-huh.

I have these business fantasies. One of my business fantasies is to do a mega successful Kickstarter, which you've done. So you did a Kickstarter, I think raised almost $5 million. Is that right?

Okay. So even, even higher than $5 million total. But one of my fantasies is do a super successful Kickstarter. The other is to create this like, like a viral product. Like basically when I saw the Snuggie, yeah, I was like, wow, this is genius. This guy, you know, somebody made a comfortable blanket essentially. I remember having several brainstorms with friends being like, what's another Snuggie?

What's another Snuggie?

And that's funny. You kind of, not to make a joke of it, But you kind of did another Snuggie.

That was the joke. That was the joke with when, with the team that we were doing this, we would take breaks and I would walk around with my partner and we'd be like, how hysterical is this gonna be if we actually make the next Snuggie? Right. And you know, cuz one of our manufacturers, their big claim to fame was that they made the Snuggie and we were like, oh shit. Like, what if, wouldn't it be crazy if this thing caught on? And like, you know, and now it's like, you know, you hear weighted blankets and gravity blankets all over the place. And it's like, I caught up with my partner in LA a couple weeks ago and we kind of were just like, yeah, like, I'm not, we're not going to say it's on the level of Snuggie, but it was like, yeah, we kind of, right, kind of did. Yeah.

Smells a little bit like it. Tastes a little bit like it.

It might be what we joked about.

Yeah. Okay. So for those who don't know, what is the gravity blanket in sort of a couple sentences? Yeah.

So the sentence is that it's basically a weighted heavy blanket. We have a 25-pound blanket, we have a 20-pound blanket, and a 15-pound blanket. And basically the line is that sleeping with 10% of your body weight on top of you is an incredible anti-anxiety relief tool.

Mm-hmm.

So you have better sleep, de-stress, and it sort of feels like this hugging sensation on your body that has like some pretty real effects on your body and mind.

Amazing. And so we're gonna talk about how you guys came up with the idea.

Mm-hmm.

How you guys brought it to market, how you did this Kickstarter and raised all this money and really built the momentum. But I wanna know just initially, what's the origin story? Where were you when you you had the idea? You said you guys were walking around or kind of joking.

Yeah, that was after, that was after the starting point of this is like in a very short sentence, I started a tech company. I was putting tablets in Ubers.

And by the way, he put air quotes on tech. I like that. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I, I have to give it credit. We're in, we're in San Francisco. I have to be careful. So it was this, I had this whole idea of advertising in Ubers, which is I guess now like a really big thing. I was a little early and it wasn't really the company that I wanted to build. So, you know, raised a bunch of money before I spent it all, gave it back to all the investors and went back to zero. So yeah, it was like kind of like months of sleeping on a couch, started this company, shut it down, back on couches. Mm-hmm. So I was like back on couches, kind of freaking out. And I really had—

what was the freakout? Is like, what am I gonna do? Or—

yeah, I mean, you know, I gave myself probably like a 2-year window where I was like, all right, I'm gonna go from having nothing to try to create something outta thin air. And if it doesn't happen, then like maybe I'll have to go and get that job at like JPMorgan or something.

And, you know, the podcast is called My First Million and it's called that because for a long time I was like, I want to be a millionaire.

Yeah.

I thought people who had a million bucks, I was like, wow, they got all the, all the bucks.

Not what it's cracked up to be.

Yeah. But like at the time I felt that and I think still for a lot of people in a lot of places, definitely not San Francisco, but a million bucks still is this like amazing milestone.

Yeah.

Same thing, like a million downloads. Totally. When this podcast gets a million downloads, you know, I'll pop up, uh, Lacroix or something.

Right, right, right, right, right.

When you say I was trying to create something outta thin air, was it more like, are you wired like me where I'm like, I just wanna make successful businesses. I kind of don't care about which field it's in, but I just wanted to build a successful business. I don't know why. I just really wanna do it. What was your thought process around I wanna create something outta thin air? What was something?

After months of sleeping on couches, I started to get like pretty desperate and was like, I don't really care what it is. Like I'll sell bags of ice. I'll like have a lemonade stand. Like I don't give a shit. I just need something that is gonna create this like positive feedback loop where I can go and get off my friend's couches. Yeah. But even that being said, there's like 5 or 6 ideas that I had where it was like, it didn't hit me in the chest as much as something like a weighted blanket. Like to me, like when I had that idea, I was going out, I was working with sleep scientists. I was actually gonna build a pillow.

And in one of the sessions with a sleep scientist, she very passively was like, oh yeah. And like after the blanket, you should look into sleeping with 10% of your body weight. And I was like, I was like, wait, what did you just say? And she was like, yeah, if you sleep with 10% of your body weight, it's this incredible anti-anxiety relief. And I was like, whoa, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I was like, stop everything. Basically threw the pillow off the table and was like, we, I have to learn more about this. And when I, I went out and I was searching for it, really couldn't find anything out there other than these children's blankets for autistic kids and like some use cases for the medical field. But there really wasn't anywhere where you could go. And purchase these things for like a normal use case and a normal person that just wanted it to like feel comfortable. And so I was like, oh wow. So I made myself like a 10-pound blanket and put it on my chest and I passed out in like 10 minutes.

And I was like, what do you mean by you made yourself a, how do you make yourself a 10-pound blanket?

Why'd you do that versus just buy one of these specialty weighted blankets that were kind of fringe at the time?

You're living your lifestyle.

Like I literally touch and use every product that I make every day. Yeah. And I've had a bunch of other ideas that I know would be massive businesses, but like they just don't really excite me.

It's amazing how much better your execution gets when you are using your own product. You know what pain points the customer's going to have because you are the customer.

You're not guessing. Exactly.

I had a bunch of VCs tell me to do the pillow business, and when I said the weighted blanket thing, they were like, what? They were like, what are you talking about? And I was like, no, no, no, you don't get it. Like, you've got to use— and they were just like, no, look at the TAM on pillow or some shit. And I was like, shut up. Like, you don't get it. So I went my own way and I'm, yeah, I'm really glad that I did. Yeah.

Okay. So you, you build the prototype yourself essentially.

Uh-huh.

You use it. You're like, okay, I believe in this. I would be willing to shill for this because I believe in it. Mm-hmm. What happens between there and let's say the Kickstarter being successful. Tell me a little bit about how that came about.

Yeah, so it was long. It was like a long time. So I had that idea and found that product probably like 5 or 6 months before I even talked about launching it because I was basically like broke with nothing. Yeah. And so it took me a really long time to get any sort of momentum.

And is that because you kind of, you weren't fully convinced yet, so you were still dabbling in other possibilities, other ideas, or you just didn't have the It was literally, it was literally the means.

Like, I didn't have— I really was making deals. I was promising my friends that if they let me stay on their couch for more than 2 weeks, I was going to take them on vacation when I was successful. And like, I was living off of a credit card that I gave myself. Like, it was like no interest or whatever for like a year and a half. And it was literally like, all right, every day was like, how do I eat and sleep? And then it was like, okay, do I have an hour or two to explore this idea? But then, you know, you need, you need people, you need a team, you need money, you need all these things to come together. And it took me a really long time to get that. So eventually, what were you doing to hustle to make money in the interim?

Were you bartending? What are you doing?

This is Future or something.

Futurism. I was like, media is in a really weird place right now. I have all these product ideas. Why don't we partner? It'll be a great way for you to show that you can, you know, bring revenue to a product. You can go do this to a bunch of other people and it'll be a great way for me to get my stuff off the ground.

Yeah. And that's cool because most media companies are trying to do this like ad model. Affiliate links model, but you need huge scale.

Yeah. So this was, this kid was just a friend from NYU and you know, that's kind of the conversation. It was like, don't go run and do that fool's errand. Let's try to do something new. And he was like, all right, I'm down with that. Like, let's, let's try it out. And so, you know, that was like 5 or 6 months of just like finding a person, chicken and rice and couches to find a friend that wanted to experiment with me.

And you needed that because they had distribution built in. Is that it, or?

Yeah, I thought it was really important to launch to a big audience. I'm not sure if that ended up being the case. Like, I don't think I would go and do that again. I wouldn't go and like partner with a media company to do this again.

But something you believed at the time.

Right, it was like, you know, this whole thesis of like media and product and everything's changing and attention, and it ended up basically just being Facebook. Like, you just need to buy Facebook ads. Right. Which would've been a lot simpler. But yeah, that was sort of the bet of like, you know, I need a team, I need resources, let's launch this thing together. We'll go to your audience. And it was clear that their audience was interested in a weighted blanket. And so we were like, okay, this will be worth our time.

And what do you mean by it was clear? Did you actually run a test with them or you're just guessing, oh, Futurism, they'll be interested? Or did you do some kind of content or some test?

Yeah, we did like a quick sample size of just like, hey, is this something you guys would be interested in?

And okay, so you just asked them, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Great. Yeah. You still haven't made the product really yet? No manufacturing?

No.

I'm guessing at this point you don't know how to do manufacturing of a product, correct?

You're like, So I kind of did. I had a handbag company in college. I was making women's handbags. I did a few, I did like women's wear. I did a few seasons of women's wear. So I, I had manufacturing relationships, right? And I've made a few things before.

And just for the record, he's wearing a blue t-shirt at the time. He's not the most fashionable, you know. Oh, come on. No handbags. I don't, I don't see anything here, but I got pretty into it.

I was, we launched at New York Fashion Week. It was like a whole thing. I was like fashion boy.

Nice. You're a hustler.

Okay, good. So yeah, I mean, like, you know, I had an idea. I, I knew that I could make a couple thousand blankets if it got down to it. I had no idea what was coming.

Right. But you didn't go make the blankets first. You start the Kickstarter first.

We did it on Kickstarter.

Going into that, did you think, oh, I got this playbook where this is gonna be a successful Kickstarter? Or was it like, I don't know, we'll just figure it out and see what happens.

It was up in the air. Like it was actually funny. We all took bets with me and the team that was helping me. We all took bets on what it would do. And I bet I had the highest bet. I thought it was gonna do a million bucks. Yeah. And everyone thought I was insane and everyone thought I was even more insane for the couple months that we worked together that I was trying to convince them to help me launch a weighted blanket. So they were like, okay, this kid is ridiculous. I thought it was gonna do well. I knew it was gonna do well. I didn't think it was gonna do that well that quickly.

Right. And so what's the trick? Okay. So you wanna do a successful Kickstarter. Tell me about some of the elements that go into like why you think it worked for you guys. May not work now, but like at that time, these were the things you guys did to make it that Kickstarter successful. I'd love to dig into some of the details of the core critical components.

We're drinking the Kool-Aid. Exactly.

Everyone's drinking.

Everyone.

No one had hated him yet.

Yeah.

And, you know, so we got, we got the branding right. We got the messaging right. We got the audience right. We got the timing right. This was like right when Trump was getting elected and everyone was freaking out and was like, oh, you know, I'm not sleeping. And like also the Casper thing and the sleep thing just happened, right? And this was sort of taking a different angle where it was like, you know, this isn't about necessarily sleep, it's about wellness, relaxation, right? And there's no gender to this product. It's everyone uses a blanket already and it's just sort of of increasing the efficacy of a product that everyone is familiar with. So again, like, I could go down a list, right, forever and like dissect it. But the problem is, again, like, if I tried to take this formula and overlay it onto something else, it wouldn't work, right? So for like MoonPod, when I did the second Kickstarter, I approached it completely different. I didn't get a media partner. I didn't try to launch to this, like, with this big grandiose thing. I didn't spend a lot of money. 'Cause I didn't think the product was right for that on, I didn't spend a lot of money on advertising. The value prop was different. The, the promise was different. So it was like, you know, you have to really, you looked at the fundamentals and you're like, what do I have?

Yeah. And what do I need?

100%.

And I wanna bring up a couple things that you said, 'cause they're kind of nuanced and we won't go too far into the details, but you made some decisions. Anytime you launch a product, there's like this decision tree you go down and by the end for successful products, it's like, oh, of course.

Mm-hmm.

Of course that makes sense that you would call it the Gravity Blanket. You would make it, you know, sort of gray and neutral and not like pink or blue or whatever.

Right, right, right.

You would use the science thing rather than, you know, something else, a different angle to market it. And so give us a sense of what are some of those other forks that, you know, you could have taken in an alternate universe. It was not called Gravity Blanket, it was called blah, blah, blah. And instead of going after science, you were gonna go after a different angle to position it. What were some of the alternates that you guys ruled out?

I mean, we joked about it. We joked about calling it the Trump Blanket. We joked about calling it a Boyfriend Blanket or like a Girlfriend Blanket, cuz that's, everyone was like, oh, I don't need a significant other to snuggle with. I'll buy Gravity.

Boyfriend blanket might have worked.

This is not how you felt when you used it.

This is too serious. I was like, this is too real. This isn't a joke. This is like, this is gonna change how people sleep. And so, you know, it was like, okay, so like Gravity Blanket, it's—

it—

we're gonna, we're gonna move towards this idea of science because there was science there. So it really is about, you know, it's good to explore and have on the table all of these different areas that you could go, but at the end of the day, I really am a believer that it comes from like having some sort of real gut.

Totally. On the product side, you A/B test your way to success, but the possibilities do exist and do come to your brain and you use something, either data or just conviction around which path to go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so you were making those decisions as you were going. So there's that element. The other thing you said that was interesting was product promise. I've used this term. I've never actually heard anyone else say it. So when you said it, I got kind of excited because the way I look at business is every product makes a promise to a customer. What am I going to do for you? Yeah. And you got to make the right promise because if you're promising something I don't care about, then I'm just going to ignore you.

Right.

Right. I promise, you know, if I promised you that I could, you know, turn your hair blue. Like, if you don't care about your hair turning blue, you don't— who cares? You don't care about me. So you got to make the right promise and then you got to live up to it. And so the promise of the Gravity Blanket is what? Is it to reduce anxiety? Is it to— what is the simple promise that you try to make with that product?

Right. And let's give people a sense of the scale of things. So you, you did this Kickstarter, you get $5 million of essentially presales. Yep. To date, what has the product done in sales now? Like how far did it go? How far did the Gravity Blanket really go?

Yeah, it's a lot. We've been around for like 2 years. I have sort of stepped away and the team there, you know, is scaling it in a really incredible way online. Mostly we're starting to get into some retail stuff and whatever. Yep. I don't wanna speak for them.

That's printed somewhere.

Yeah, that's printed.

Amazing. So yeah, so like, yeah, it's a little more than that now, obviously, because that was probably what, a year ago? Yeah, maybe months ago. Yeah. So it's grown since then. But again, like it's a super healthy business. I mean, it was profitable from day one. And when that happens, you know, you have this positive feedback loop of, you know, gas, right, that helps it grow.

And so you develop that product. And you've developed subsequent products since you said MoonPod.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, what's the other one? The candle?

The candle's fun. Is a, it's a—

tell us about the promise that those make.

Yeah, totally. So MoonPod was a similar promise. It was, I basically was like, I started freaking out and was like, holy shit. Like, what if I'm just the blanket guy forever? Like, what if I can never—

the one hit wonder, right?

And it was like, you know, you, you asked why did it work and how do you have a successful thing? I was really scared that I just got lucky. Mm-hmm. Or that like, you know, it was, it was because this or that and, you know, maybe Facebook was cheap or something, or that audience that I had access to, like maybe I did just trick everyone into buying something and I'll never be able to do that again. And I was like freaking out. So the second that gravity hit, I was like, oh my God, I gotta come up with number 2.

I have to come up with number 2.

And I went over to Japan alone to sort of have a, a chill out. And I started just seeing all of these like beanbags and I was like, wow, like there isn't a great beanbag in the United States. And I was like, okay. And I sat in a few in Japan and like kind of had that same feeling that I had when I put Gravity on where it was like my chest sort of like, you know, it felt like my soul sort of left my body and I was sort of just like in this like bliss. And I was like, holy shit, this is another product where that happened again. And I was like, went home and I bought a bunch of beanbags to test them out. I wasn't happy with any of them, but when I used some of the beanbags with the Gravity Blanket, I was like, oh my God, this is the perfect platform to use with Gravity Blanket. Amazing. So I was like, okay, it's complimentary. Complimentary. I would sit on it when I was stressed, when I needed a nap or I had anxiety.

And what makes it better than a normal beanbag that I've experienced here, you know, growing up in the States?

Totally. So we have pretty cool rounded design that's super unique. And then the material that we use, there's like a dual membrane where we have an inner layer and an outer layer. And the outer layer is this like elastic jersey type of thing that holds its form. And then the inner bead is this custom, like, high-friction bead that we, you know, we found— there's only like one guy in the US that makes these things the way that I wanted them to and that would work with me. And so, you know, with this whole combination, you basically get this sensation that you're like kind of floating and you're like supported and it can turn into a chair and, you know, it's this weird modular thing and, you know, you don't see that out there. It's like LoveSac and a few others that are just like this big giant sack of foam.

Yeah, I've seen those.

And this is sort of this lightweight, malleable support system that's sort of like, you know, you feel it in your lower back. Any which way you lean into it, it sort of pushes back against you. Right. And, you know, that was pretty unique. Like, there aren't a lot of people doing that and no one's really telling the story that we're telling where it's kind of like, hey, this is an adult beanbag. Like, it's okay. It is kind of the best place to sit where you want to do work or chill out or hang out.

You know, normally on the podcast, I don't even—

I remarkably don't talk to the guests so much about their product because it ends up feeling like a sales pitch because usually the person's really into their product.

Totally. And I just, you know, we— people are here for more of the story. In your case, I actually really want to talk about it because your product is naturally interesting. I feel like it's interesting to everybody.

I'm out.

Yeah.

It's like, okay. I would say your very simplistic approach to this is inspiring. Like when you were saying that, you're like, I got the main thing right. And I kept the main thing the main thing. And that's kind of the main— that's the thing to do. And why are we all distracting ourselves? Yeah, and I like that. I like that approach very much.

I heard that 5-Hour Energy guy who's like idol stuff, he said the same shit. He was like, one of my bus rides around California when I was just like, you know, trying to figure it out, they were like, why haven't Coke or Pepsi or whoever like come and knock you out of the water? And he was like, they always forget about the most important thing, it's the product. He's like, I made the best formula. And no one can copy it. And, you know, like, why does Coke still exist? Yes, there is, there is a very real argument that they own distribution and all this shit, but I don't care if you just replaced Coca-Cola with Moxie. I'm not being tempted by Moxie, right? I'm not like caving in. You know, I'm not like leaving the gym and still being like, I don't know, I kind of want to treat myself to a Moxie just because it's in my face. Coca-Cola tastes like magic. Yeah, it is incredible. It is consistent. I've never tasted anything like it. And that wins for a reason. And there's a reason why the special Coke formula is this massive secret that no one can ever copy, is because they understand that it's the product. Hmm.

So you're in San Francisco. There's a lot of people that would disagree with you, not just on Coke being great as a drink, but just everyone had said, everyone talks about a good drink, brand, supply chain, everything else. And I like that you have a different take on it.

You have to have all of it. You have to have all of it. But I mean, a lot of people that are just going out and raising $2 million to like, you know, put a different logo on toothpaste or something, it's like, I don't know, man. I don't know if I'd take that bet. I don't know if I'd want to spend 5 years of my life just sort of like doing a brand exercise and like, you know, getting it on the shelves of a few retailers. It's like, that's not really that exciting. And don't tell me that you're changing people's lives because you're not. And again, like, it's just like like find that magic moment. And you can do the equation, you can raise money, you can tap all these distributors, and you can throw it in someone's face, but at the end of the day, it's not going to really last or work unless someone naturally falls in love with it. And that comes down to the product.

Your story reminds me a little bit of the founders of Calm. Do you, do you know those guys?

Alex and—

I don't.

We worked with the Gravity— the Gravity team worked with them. Uh, we did like a whole collaboration with them, so I'm going to have them on the podcast.

Oh, I saw this. I saw this.

He just sold every pixel every square for a dollar. Sick. And so, and you could buy like 10 of them or whatever. And so he in a few weeks essentially sells a million dollars of advertising on this website. Amazing. And was like, be a part of internet history. And he played the PR machine and whatever. So he makes a million bucks. He spends it like within a year because he's like 21 years old. He's having fun. He blows it. And he was, you know, he enjoyed it. But he thought, all right, that next hit's right around the corner. And then the next 10 years he basically failed to make another hit. Yeah. But he kept trying, kept trying, kept trying until he makes Calm. And actually Calm was not an instant hit either. Either. Calm is a meditation app.

Yep.

Probably one of the most popular meditation apps in the world. It's like valued over a billion dollars now. And at the time, I remember talking to him when he was starting it and it was like, you're doing a meditation app? And it's kind of a crazy story, but he was still in the same space you're in, which is around anti-anxiety. Yep. De-stressing. Yep. Getting better sleep, having better focus. You know, these are the kind of core needs that society was feeling given the way that the world has evolved. And he came at it from a very different angle, you know, a meditation app. But I feel like you guys were solving some of the same pain points. And like you said, like there's a lot of, there's like a sleep Boom. There's a lot of sleep products nowadays.

Yep.

Yeah.

I mean, again, it's all a lot, like, like I said, you gotta get 90 things right at the same time. And like the timing of, I don't know where this collective agreement in the world is that everyone's more stressed out than ever right now. I don't know where that comes from, but like, it's a problem that people need help with.

Do you say that because you don't believe that? Or you, when you say, I don't know where that comes from, are you saying, oh no, I agree with that.

I don't know if it's political. I don't know if it's environmental.

Oh, you don't know the cause.

Yeah. Like, I don't know where this thing is coming from, but everyone's just like, I am so stressed, right? I'm like teetering on depression. I need help. Like it, for some reason, it seems more than ever that this idea around like getting relief for this stress is so important.

Yeah.

And again, yeah. Like, I don't know, like, you know, weighted blankets were around for a while.

And how did people feel who made weighted blankets and never saw, you know, an ounce of the, you know, one hundredth of the success that you guys found very quickly with with it. What was— were they encouraging you because they're like, great, now this is going to market? Or were they sort of jealous of you guys for sort of just taking the concept and really running, commercializing it and making it mainstream?

Yeah, I don't know. Like, a few people called me that had companies and they were like, oh my God, thank you so much. We— you like tripled our sales and you grew the category and now everyone knows about it and it's just up to the consumer which one they like better. And like, thank you, thank you, thank you. Other people wrote articles calling us like, you know, they thought we were like the devil that stole—

it was like there wasn't this— there was no patent there was no invention.

It was just this thing that is really great for people and everyone loves and definitely seems like it's helping everyone that tries it. I like to have an optimistic view of it. It was just like, we just, we just have this thing that a bunch of people wanted and we told a different story and that opened up a brand new use case for a whole new market segment. But you know, you hear that in business all the time. Like there's a product that exists that's being used for one thing and it's like, oh wait, that can also be used in this way for this new set of people and it takes soft, right? Yeah. Can I actually go to the bathroom?

Sure. All right, while he goes to the restroom, this podcast is sponsored by nobody. Our sponsor pulled out for season 2 just a few days ago, so we got to find a new sponsor. Until then, enjoy the ad-free podcast. And if you're a sponsor looking to get on the show or get your message in front of a bunch of entrepreneurs, email me, puri.shawn@gmail.com. And if you are a sponsor looking to you get in front of our audience. We're doing over 100,000 downloads every month and growing. Let me know. We have a big audience— entrepreneurs, business people, people looking to make money. We are open for business. All right, we're back from the bathroom break. Oh yeah, um, here we go. Okay, so I wanted to basically round out by— I have two things that I like to, to kind of leave people with. The first is you mentioned this candle, and I really just wanted to know what it is. So can you give me the like one minute on what this candle is? Because I gotta check this out.

And what do you mean by accurately? Because I'm a non-believer. Like, okay, so just—

See, I think you're wrong.

I think you're wrong. So 2 days ago, or I don't know, 36 hours ago, my daughter was born. My first child was born.

You gotta tell me more.

September 8th. Craziest day of my life. I'll send you a candle. I'll send you a candle for it. So the funny thing is, we're obviously in the hospital, and there's these doctors, and everything is science. They're taking labs, they're asking questions, everything is science, and then they're like, "Oh, Virgo baby, you know what that means." I'm a Virgo, and they're not just making conversation. I could tell they're totally believers. It was real. And so I kind of had this, I bucketed that in the hocus pocus land. I personally didn't— I never put any stock into it, but it caught my attention yesterday when they were saying this, that they really believe. And we were also— we were naming her, so, so her name is Blush. And so we were looking up like the etymology of a name, and then you see this thing where we looked up her middle name. Her middle name's Alani, and it means like— I looked up the definition, it was like very, you know, a brave, charismatic girl who blah blah blah, like all these amazing things that obviously I want to be true. But I'm also a little skeptical, like, you know, is this just a fortune cookie telling me like a nice positive thing. Like, when you say accuracy, I question that. Like, what do you mean by accuracy?

My answer is, what does it matter, right? And, and like, you know, this is a way—

so you're down with like the placebo style thing, correct?

I read an article the other day, so one, I'm not saying astrology is placebo for all the astrology people out there, but I read this article the other day that made an incredible case that it is unethical to not give patients the placebo before they're actually prescribed the real thing because it is the most powerful with the most success Right.

And no downsides, essentially. And no downsides.

Right.

And so like, that makes sense.

Okay, yeah, give it to me.

Is one, again, like, the stories that you tell yourself probably will end up happening, and it's super powerful when you are presented with an object that tells a certain story about yourself or the thing and the promise. And when that comes true, you start to believe it, and it's a reinforcing positive cycle. So when you say, oh, I'm a Leo, you're charismatic and passionate, you know, every time I look at my candle, I'm I'm like, boom, I gotta be charismatic and passionate because that's who I am, right? And then I'm calling someone and I'm inviting them to dinner, and then all of a sudden I'm charismatic and passionate. Where did that come from? Is that some DNA inside of me that was, that was formed around the astrological birth of me, or is that a story that I'm telling myself? Does it matter? I don't think it matters because it's happening and it's worth sticking around. Astrology has been around for longer than most religions. It is something that people are continually obsessed about. For right now, it's, it's becoming more and more. But again, like, yes, you can say it's not rooted in science and whatever, but there is something magical about a story that makes people sort of light up. And that moment, I think, is one of the most important moments in someone's day or in a life, is that moment of just pure bliss. And I think depending on, you know, there are some things where that's bad, or, you know, it'll lead to something like drugs or whatever. But I think for the most part, if positive and harmless and reinforcing some good aspect about yourself, I think it's amazing. And so when people tell— when people hit me up about the astrology thing, they're like, I light that thing every day and I am reminded about the best parts of myself, and I am reminded about the parts of myself that I need to focus on and work on, and it just makes me feel really great, and it smells really good too. At the end of the day, I think it helps, and I think it's good, and I don't think it matters why it works. I just think it kind of works.

Yeah, that resonates with me. I have a, I have a belief around this, which is that everything that I believe to be true is just a story. I don't actually know what's true and what's not.

Right.

And no one does. And the question is, if everything is essentially a story, right? We create these shortcuts in our brain that tells us this is this, when in actuality you may not be seeing half of what's there. You may not know the root of it. Uh, very little in our life we, we truly, we know the truth of, but we create these stories and then they, they live with us. And so the question then is, does the story serve me? There's some stories that don't serve you. They actually like detract you. Right. It's a story you tell about yourself that why you can't do this, or why you're bad at this, or why blah, blah, blah. Why this other thing is really bad for you in your life. And then there's other stories that serve you, and I think that like, I'm not a religious guy, but I think religion is one of the most powerful stories that serve people. It helps people behave in a way that makes them have a better life, and they're happier, and the statistics show that the people who have faith in their life have a higher quality of life and do better, and have lower risk of a whole bunch of really bad things that can happen to a human being. And so the question really isn't what is the truth, because that might be an impossible task, But the better question might be, if this is a story in my life, is this story serving me? And if it is, great, let me double down on it. If it's not serving me, let me try to figure out, is there another story that's, that's a better frame of that, that thing in my life, that thing that's happening to me? Yeah. So that's been, that's how I've lived my life. And so I guess my skepticism about the astrology could actually go back into that same bucket where if lighting this candle made me feel good every day, who cares what the reason is that it makes me feel good? It just makes you feel good. It makes me feel good, which is the goal I have anyways. And choosing to believe can be all the difference.

Yeah, this is really just branding. Like there's this whole thing happening now. Like I've been looking a lot at the story of like Jesus and the Bible, which is again, just a story that has not gone away. Mm-hmm. And what, what is that? What is the mechanics in that story? Like why when they tell you to do this, this, and this, and look up to the heavens and pray, like what is praying? Praying is literally forcing you to tell yourself a narrative of what you want. If it's like I, I had a, I have a super religious friend that has been making us pray when I eat with him. Mm-hmm. And I like started giggling at it, and then like he just started saying these things, and I was like, well shit, like what would I actually say? What would I ask? What would I ask myself for? What would I ask the heavens for? I didn't even know how to put it into words. And then when I started to put it into words, all of my things in that day started leading closer to getting the thing that I asked for. And so again, like, is that some magical man in the sky granting me a thing, or is that me just basically tricking myself into some sort of positive reinforcing to get the thing closer. It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. Have you ever seen Life of Pi?

I haven't, but I know roughly the story.

It's so good. I saw this a while ago and I didn't really understand it, but at the end of the movie, he tells the whole story about how there are these animals on the thing and he killed them all and had to eat them and whatever. And the scientist that is interviewing him is like, well, you know, there's all this evidence that it wasn't animals and that it was people and you killed these people and you ate them. Which one was it. And he was like, he was like, well, which one do you like better? And the guy was like, I like the animals one. And he was like, yeah, same. Did you learn anything different? Would anything change if it was people? And he was like, no, not really, it's kind of the same message. And he was like, exactly. So like, whether or not this is a scientific story or if it's a religious story, they're both probably going to lead you to a similar place. And I'm like, I mean, you hear a scientist, you hear like Neil deGrasse Tyson or some shit talk, he is preaching. Yeah, that is a narrative preach. He has no clue. There is some scientific evidence around the experience, but he's talking about this and that, and then an article will come out next week that debunks it, debunk it, and it's like, oh shit, that was a narrative around science that just completely got disproven. So what is so scientific about it? Like string theory. I was looking at string theory shit. It was like, oh, there are these different narratives that make sense, but they don't really make sense in other— I was like, you're just talking about stories, right? Don't call this string theory. This isn't scientific. There is nothing that backs It's a string story. It's a string story. It's a string story. So I don't know.

I don't know.

Do what makes you feel good, I guess.

I mean, what you're doing is basically— that is prayer, basically. That is like ending your days with some prayer. What is the prayer? You say what you're grateful for, you ask what you need, and you thank God. It's like people have been doing that forever for a reason. I don't think people are that different. And I don't think much changes. And so like, again, like you just rebranded the story of prayer by saying it was an app. It's like, okay, call it whatever you want, do it however you want. But like those like core mechanics of how people work, I don't think change that much. And I think that a lot of people are really skittish around accepting that right now for some reason. But I think, you know, as, as the more people sort of like, you know, are honest with themselves and open about certain things and maybe not being certain about other things and being open that there might be a new possibility that they haven't just emotionally clung to. I mean, maybe that will kind of help as much as the weighted blanket to sort of de-stress, right? De-stress the world.

Okay. And so there ends the spirituality portion of the podcast. We will finish up with the money round, which is very short questions that are sort of like rapid fire, just whatever comes to mind. If you can't think of one, feel free to either throw out some BS or just pass. Either way is fine. So the first question is, what is the sort of best under $200 purchase of a product that improved your quality of life, like the products you've made, but something you've made. Disqualify your own product.

I'm gonna say every once in a while, a Coca-Cola. It makes me so happy, and I get so pumped, and I think about it, and I'm like, God, they did everything right. It's perfect. It's magic. I don't drink them every day. I don't drink them every week, but every once in a while, a can of Coca-Cola pumps me up. Best ROI out there.

I have to have, like, probably my first Coke in like 5 years. I'm gonna have it today after this conversation. My mouth is like salivating from, from the conversation. All right, so next one is, when you made your first million bucks, what was the sort of— what was the feeling like? And did you— what was that day like when you realized that you're sort of— you financially, you've made it to an extent? Like, you won't be back on the couch anymore, that sort of thing. Like, what was the feeling like when you hit financial freedom?

It was not that sick at all. I did not feel great Great. I used to, I used to work for this one guy that told me he kind of had a mental breakdown the first time he made money. And I was like, I don't believe you. You're such an idiot. Like, shut up. Like, be grateful.

Right? Give me the money if you're going to act like that.

Like, okay, sick. And then it happened. And then I was like, oh shit, he was right. This is, it's the wrong framework. I don't really believe that. And again, like, you know, you kind of have to get it to realize that it's wrong. I like that Jim Carrey line where he is like, I wish everyone would be famous and rich so that they realize that's not the answer.

Yeah. And the most valuable thing from all of this shit was having absolutely zero money, like less than zero money, and figuring out how to survive off of that. And I've, you know, zero has never felt better, and it's the most freeing thing. And now money is just this thing that exists that's sort of a scorecard, but I literally don't spend money on anything. It does not change my lifestyle. It doesn't change my thought process.

This.

It doesn't change how I build the companies. It doesn't change how I think about product. All of that shit, the real, real, real, real, real magic is kind of free. But then the Chanel line of the second best things costs a lot of money. So yeah, it didn't feel that great. But again, like, that wasn't really why I was doing it. It was never to get a million bucks. It was just to make something work. And okay, cool. Now money came along with it. Great.

But, and so what's something you said? I don't spend a bunch of money, and I think that's pretty common amongst most people that are in this room sitting in that chair you're sitting in right now. But I think everybody has something that they almost don't realize that they spend freely on now. It's like, oh, like, like I had the founder of Native deodorant on last week and he said, I never think about the prices on the menu anymore. I love to eat great food and I just order whatever I want. If my mom is there, she's like, oh no, we don't, don't get that. And he's like, no, we're going to get the drink and the appetizer. Like it's not a lot of money, right? But he just feels he's price insensitive on that now. Is there anything you're now price insensitive about that you like?

Yeah, all of those things that caused me crazy stress of just like, oh, like late fees, change fees, like stuff on the menu. You know, the Founders Fund guys, the reason why I'm out here is that I'm going to Montana with them tomorrow and I didn't pack anything and I'm going to buy shoes out there because it's easier and that And like, that is incredible. That's kind of the only thing. I recently got into watches, which is the thing that I've always told myself forever that that would be the only thing that I spend a lot of money on. And that underratedly has brought me a lot of happiness. Yeah. Have you been to The Interval down there?

I have not.

Oh, The Interval down in Fort Mason is like this bar that's all about like time. It's the coolest place ever. You gotta go. But yeah, just like, you know, that, that $0 to $50 purchase that used to make me throw up, I don't care about anymore. And that is by far the best thing possible. You don't need that much money to live like that.

Great. And so to wrap up, a lot of people like to reach out after the episodes. They'll be like, wow, that was inspiring. Loved your story. Can you help me with this? Blah, blah, blah. People reach out for all different kinds of reasons. Sometimes compliments, sometimes requests. They both come hand in hand. Do you want to be contacted? How should people follow you or contact you? Social media, whatever. Shout it out so that people can kind of get more John if they want more John.

Totally, totally. So yeah, definitely reach out. Like to hear people's stories, like to be helpful. I'm hiring, always hiring, always looking for partners. I have a bunch of ideas that I'm about to launch that are going to be their own companies. So if anyone's out there interested in sort of joining, always happy to chat or help them on their own. Uh, I would probably say Instagram is the best. Slide into those DMs. I would say my Instagram is @john @1_fiorentino. That's probably the best way to contact me. Awesome.

Well, brother, thank you for doing this. I appreciate the flexibility on the timing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I told you, I was like, dude, I'm due to have a baby.

Yeah. So sick. It is. I'm jealous, man. That's next. That's the next chapter.

The greatest product I have of all time.

That's, that's the answer.

That is it. And speaking of, I got to go back. I left my wife for 1 hour and that's 1 hour too many. So I got to get out of here. But this is great.

All right, man, thanks. I need a dollar, dollar, dollar, that's what I need. Hey, hey, well, I need a dollar, dollar, dollar, that's what I need. Hey, hey, said I need a dollar, dollar, dollar, that's what I need. And if I share with you my story, would you share your dollar with me?