3 Crazy Billionaire Stories
this may not be the best acquisition ever, but I'll be damned if it isn't up there. Yeah. Right. Like I think that he bought this. I don't know the, I don't know the exact number, but he bought majority of OnlyFans for, I think, single-digit millions of dollars, maybe low double digits, possibly low double digits, but let's even say it was $10 million. This is now a more than $10 billion company.
I want to start the episode with a survey for the listener. Ah, and we'll actually let John and Ben chime in. So just, Ben, turn your camera on so I can see your face. All right. So we're going to start with the survey. So on Monday morning at 7:30 AM, I wake up from a text from Sean. And here's what the text says. It goes, hey, you got good topics for tomorrow? I just texted Emmett from Twitch to do a pod and he said he'll do it tomorrow. So I'm going to drive to San Francisco tomorrow and record an interview with him. And so what I want— Jonathan and Ben, turn your cameras on. What I want you to do, a thumbs up if you think that it's the first one, a thumbs down if you think it's the second one. Do you think that this text means, okay, in lieu of Sam and Sean recording together, I'm going to do one with Emmett? Or do you think that this means, in addition to the recording tomorrow, I'm also going to do one with Sam and Sean? Thumbs up for the first one. Thumbs down for the second one. All right, great. I just wanted to make sure I'm not crazy and I want to know.
Oh, Ben, the betrayal. Oh, it too, Ben.
It too. So I thought that that's what it meant. And when I heard that, I was like, all right, so I have some free time between 11 and noon.
I'm— ladies and gentlemen of the jury, let me just say this. Would I say, do you have good topics for the pod tomorrow if we weren't going to do a pod with good topics together? I don't know. Seems like that might be something that, uh, you know, that we're going to do.
All right. Well, I just want to see what the audience thinks. So whatever. Um, I have a bunch of topics today. What do you have?
I got, bro, you think you've got a bunch of topics? I got, well, however many topics you have, add one. That's how many topics I got.
Well, I see a big list. You have like an interesting, you have a few interesting things. What are you? You want to kick us off with something?
Let's start with this. Yeah. So, um, we've talked a lot about one business on this podcast, probably more than any other podcast has talked about this business. I would say we are the champions of, of this company. We are the ones out here letting people know that this company's legit, that this company is big, that this company is very interesting. Everybody's overlooking it. We've been saying it for years.
Are you even a paying customer of this company?
I'm not a paying customer because I'm a married man.
But, well, you can be a married man and be a customer, but like, I've never paid for that.
I'm not a paying customer because free porn exists. And I'm talking about OnlyFans. The, uh, so OnlyFans's annual numbers leaked and, um, not leaked actually. What happened was actually kind of interesting. You know this, but maybe a lot of people who are listening don't, which is that any company, uh, that is based in the UK has, whether it's private or public, has to report at the end of the year a sort of a financial summary. And the more, the bigger your company is, the more data you have to include.
Basically like a, like a public company, you have to report like, like a public company.
So in the US, if it's public, you can go look up their information, maybe the quarterly, quarterly earnings, or you can go find their S-1. But if, if it's a private company, you're just shit outta luck. You're just guessing. But if you go to onlyfans.com and you scroll down to the privacy policy, you click privacy policy, you will see that OnlyFans is run by a company called Phoenix International Limited. And what is Phoenix International Limited? It is a company based in the UK. So if you go to the, uh, there's a, a, a entity called Companies House and Companies House is where, uh, all of the company information is housed. And so if you go there, you can find, uh, you can look up Phoenix International Limited., and then you can look at filing history and you can see that there are several reports, several reports about, uh, this director replacing this director. But the one you want to care— the one you care about is the one that basically says, here is, um, the 2022 financial summary, year-end financial summary. And when you go to that, you're gonna see the following picture of a business. OnlyFans is a business that generated or, or collected $5.6 billion in revenue. In 2022. Its take on that, it was 20%. So their, their company took $1.1 billion. So for every $4 a creator makes, they make $1. On that $1.1 billion in net revenue, $525 million of profit. So this company's spitting off half a billion a year of profit. Pay a little tax, the after-tax profit is still $400 million. And then the beauty of it is if you scroll down to, to the, I don't know, it's the balance sheet. Uh, so somewhere down right after the P&L, it says dividends and it shows that the owner, Leo, took $338 million in dividends last year.
Oh my God.
And the year before that, he took like $200-something million. This guy has taken out $550 million of dividends in the last 2 years off this business, which is just incredible because let me remind you, this is a company that he bought In 2018, this is 5 years.
What did he, uh, so 5 years, what did he, he bought it for? Do you know what he paid for?
Non-public information, but he bought 75% of the business at the time for what I believe was low millions of dollars.
Was he wealthy, uh, before that?
Yes. So Leo is a, um, kind of a gangster of the internet and he, by the way, if you just go to his website, his website's awesome.
So there's really two things I love about his website. He's a listener, I think.
Well, that's one of the things I love about the website. If you go to his website, which is just his name, Leo, Leo Radvinsky.com. If you go to things I like, so he's got a things I like, and then the very first category, podcasts, the very first one of two podcasts is My First Million. So he's a listener of the pod, which was just a cool thing, fun thing to see. But I love his website because I love when people sort of put up their flag and they're like, yo, this is what I'm all about. And it just, they just make it really easy for you to just understand, here's who I am, here's what I do, here's what I'm into. And if I'm into this, if you're into those same sort of things, we'll probably get along. So his, uh, his main thing says he's a software company architect, angel investor, and open source software supporter. This guy gives millions of dollars a year. To open source projects that probably would have died had he not done that. He's a huge supporter of open source software and sort of like a, he's like, you know, like a sort of freedom entrepreneur, right? He wants projects that are increasing the overall amount of freedom in the universe. So whether it's, he'll fund these open source social networks that are like a Mastodon type of social network that are are not owned or controlled by like Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk, like one private company, closed source, owned by a mega billionaire. He funds projects that are alternatives to those.
And listen to this. Also, if you go to his— so you see like he has sections about me, projects, open source, things I like. If you click projects, OnlyFans isn't even number one of the listed projects. It's number two. Number one. And he just, it just says like one paragraph and it says what it is., but number 1 is some open source project. That's what he has listed. Yeah.
B4X. He's like, uh, B4X is like tools for rapid prototyping and development. You know, Microsoft discontinued Visual Basic and B4X stepped in to try to make this happen. Probably would have died. You know, they basically, like, when I looked into this, it probably would have died. And then 2019, he decided to, um, put a ton of money into it just so that project could stay alive. And, um, so then like under giving, he's like, yeah, I don't, I donated a bunch of my time, effort, and money to causes I care about. Including open source initiatives and traditional charities. My goal one day is to sign the Giving Pledge. To sign the Giving Pledge, you need a billion-dollar net worth. I'm pretty sure he has like a multi-billion-dollar net worth now. I think he's achieved this goal because in the 5 years, and you can go look at the company filings, but like 2019, 2018, the company has like, he pulls out like $1.5 million in dividends. And so in like a 3-year period, he went from pulling out $1.5 million in dividends to $250 and then $340 million in dividends out of this company. So this accelerated extremely quickly. And I think like, you know, there's all these great tech acquisitions. There's like, you know, Google buying YouTube for $1 billion, probably worth $50 billion now. Facebook buying Instagram for $1 billion, probably worth $100 billion now. This may not be the best acquisition ever, but I'll be damned if it isn't up there.
Yeah.
Right. I think that he bought this, I don't know the, I don't know the exact number, but he bought majority of OnlyFans for, I think, single-digit millions of dollars, maybe low double digits, possibly low double digits, but let's even say it was $10 million. This is now a more than $10 billion company. So he turned, let's just pretend it was $10 million into essentially $10 billion of value personally, not a fund, not a company. This is him. This is one guy.
Who owns the other 25%? And is there a story of him buying this and like what he saw? Because like, I would have, if this was me 5 years ago, I would have been like, dude, this would never, this will never work. Right? I mean, everyone would have said that.
So it was already kind of, it was already working on a very small scale. So this guy Guy Stokely was the founder. And if you go look at Guy Stokely, he looks like an Instagram model. He is like a, like every picture of him, he's flanked by 7 women. And the story is that Guy Stokely, his dad's in the finance world. He takes a small loan of like £10,000 from his dad, starts OnlyFans, and they kind of co-own the business or whatever. It's like a father and son was like sort of the origin of this.
Is it good bonding? Yeah.
Yeah. Like, right. Like that's amazing.
And I don't know why he sold or when he sold, but yeah, Leo approaches them and he buys the business. At the time, it was reported that he bought 75% of the business. I don't know if later he bought the rest. I suspect he did because there's one of these filings that Guy Stokely is removed as a director in the company. So maybe he just voluntarily stepped down. I don't know. At some point, you're just reading a bunch into these statements. You can't say for sure exactly how it happened. And this whole thing was very secretive. In fact, when I first found out about Leo owning OnlyFans, at the time nobody knew who owned OnlyFans. It was not clear. There's nothing on the internet. This was several years ago and I was trying to figure it out. I couldn't figure it out. And then I get a message from somebody who's like, hey, I know the guy who owns OnlyFans and he loves the pod. I was like, whoa, that's cool. I've been trying to find who owns this thing. I wanted to invest in this. And anyways, that's how we kind of like, we ended up having a chat. You know, I want to meet this guy someday. He's got a really interesting story. So now there's like a photo of him on the internet and there's, he's a very private guy, but now a little more information has come out about him very early on. I think when he was a teenager, like 15, 16 years old, he got into the business of first, I think like domaining. So he would basically buy and sell like hundreds of domains, like maybe thousands of domains. In fact, there's like a, some, he got sued at some point. Some, there's like a court filing of like, here's a thousand domains that this guy still owns. And it's just like every variation of, uh, like, you know, sort of like websites that you can imagine, many of which were sort of in the adult category. And then he creates MyFreeCams and MyFreeCams basically took over the camgirl market. And I think that site still makes great money. That's how I think he got very rich was off that site. And he used that money then to invest and to parlay that into other businesses. But he owns a portfolio of these businesses and now Phoenix International, which is OnlyFans, has become a major one.
This is amazing in a lot of different ways. One, it's amazing that Companies House, which is always a weird name, I hate saying that. It's companies, plural, Companies House. It's amazing that that exists and it's one of my favorite places to do research. It's amazing how fast this grew. Would you invest in this company or do you not? Do you like—
Yeah, I tried to several times. You know, the problem was they didn't need any investment. They were making so much money. And so I was like, hey, I can add value. And I was like, ah, I don't even, you know, am I really? You're crushing it. What am I going to do here? Right? Like, Hey, I'm a fan. I think I'm a good hang. Can I invest? That's really ultimately what my pitch was. It's like, I'm a fan of what you're doing. Unlike most people, I don't ju— like, you know, at the time when I was saying this stuff, like, only because had they— it's over time become more and more mainstream over time, become more and more accepted as a thing that's legitimate. At the time it was seen as very sketchy. It was sort of the butt of the joke. And Yeah, so I definitely would've invested in this. I wanted to, they were doing so well that I don't think they ultimately needed any investment. Now the one thing they do need is liquidity. Like, you know, he's taken massive dividends, which is great, but like, you know, they could realize a several billion dollar liquidity event if they could go public or if they could sell, but there's no buyer and it's hard to go public with a business like this. And so I think, you know, I don't know what they're going to do with it, but it's not a bad plan B to just suck out hundreds of millions in dividends every year. It's fine.
Yeah. I was going to say, is that what he wants? I don't know why you'd ever want to go public with—
I don't know if he wants that, but you always want the option, right? Like any business person would want the option, whether you take it or not is secondary. In fact, most of the things in my life I'm pushing for and people are like, do you want this? And I'm like, oh, I haven't even gotten there yet. All I want is the option. And if I have the option, then I could think what I definitely know is I don't not want the option, right? And I think that's just a better way to operate as a business person is to, uh, to make sure you have the options on the table for you.
At $400 million a year in a dividend, there's probably only 5 or 10, I would imagine, people getting— have— who have in the world, or at least in America, who have— who have higher income. Like, I remember Steve Schwarzman from Blackstone one year made a billion dollars, and then the other guy is like What's the guy's name? Is it Griffith or Griffin? The, uh, like, it's usually just like, it's usually like the top 5 or 10 hedge fund managers who make this. And they're actually, if they're the best, they're, it's fairly reliable, but they're like, those are the guys who are buying the $100 million apartments in New York, you know, like the Bill Ackmans. And there's probably only 10 of them, maybe 20, but like that income, you'd be the highest in America and the top 30 or something like that. You know what I mean? So like, I don't know, man. I would probably still own that. Well, this is cool.
One thing that's cool about this guy, by the way, when I talked to him, like, you know, 90% of our conversation was not about OnlyFans at all. It was about these different open source projects he's interested in. He was just, he's very like, he's a technical guy. He's very curious, very interested. So he was showing me like, oh, by the way, check this out. I'm gonna send you this link. You know, like try this, try this site out. It's kind of like, it's like this fringe. Niche site, open source project, but like, I think it's really cool for these reasons. And I just love that. I love, you know, one of the things I love the most about tech is that it redistributed wealth to a bunch of people who had different interests. So like when the wealthiest people were all from finance, you just got this like one homogenous pool of rich people. It's like, here's a bunch of rich dudes that live in the same place, like Alpha, like the same stuff, white guys wearing suits, Alpha, New York, you know, power suit.
Watch-wearing, art-buying, greed is good type of guys.
Yeah. And then crypto made a whole bunch of other people rich, right? Because it was like a different type of person got rich through that and they had different interests and they're like, yo, I'm going to spend money on this digital squiggle and this Bored Ape and I'm going to donate to this other thing and I'm going to fund these types of projects and these types of, this type of worldview I'm going to fund. And tech companies were started by Mark Zuckerberg and this guy didn't, He wouldn't want to start a hedge fund. He wanted to do something else. And because he does that now, he could spend his money doing other things. Or Elon Musk, he's like, I'm going to fund companies that will do space travel when no investor would fund this. I'll fund it myself. And so I love when wealth gets distributed to new pockets of people who have different interests, different values, because they're going to bring some new— like, it's not the thing they created, it's actually all the stuff they do with their money that creates 100 new new things. That's kind of interesting to me.
I've, uh, I've emailed back and forth with him just a few times. I've asked him to come on. Um, I think you have too. I don't know if that will ever happen.
Yeah, he's like, I'm a pretty private person. I don't think— he's like, I don't think I would make a, a very good guest. But, um, you know, well, okay, fine, we'll talk about your dividends then, sir. You either come on as a guest or we find you on Company's House. That's the rules of this podcast, dude.
Let me tell you about another person that is hard to find information on and is really fascinating, but really evil. Have you ever heard of the Sackler family?
I saw that there's a documentary or a movie out on Netflix about them, or a show, but I don't know anything about them. So I'm in the perfect spot. I'm interested and aware, but completely ignorant.
Go. So there's two documentaries, one on Hulu, or, uh, they're both actually fictional shows. They're both really good. One called, I think, Dopesick, one called Painkiller. One's on Hulu, one's on Netflix. The story is about Purdue Pharma. So Purdue Pharma is basically, I'm going to tell, I'll tell you a little bit about that. And then I want to tell you about the early, even before that, because that's more interesting to me at the, at this point, but basically Purdue Pharma started by 3 brothers. They, it was Mortimer, Raymond, and Arthur Sackler. Uh, they were in, yeah, they are in the, uh, can you be named Mortimer and not be evil?
Like that's, I mean, he's, and he's one of the evil ones.
And so basically these, these 3 brothers, I'll talk about their background in a second, but basically they were in the medical industry forever since they started as doctors and then they worked at psych hospitals where they did lobotomies and they're like, all right, let's create, let's start making these medicines and drugs. And so after 50 years of doing this, they eventually start or buy Purdue Pharma. They buy it for not a lot of money, but they, it evolves over 40 years. To where they create this drug called OxyContin. OxyContin was basically, it's an opioid and it wasn't popular at the time. It was kind of unknown. They had a drug previously that was similar. They kind of changed it and they, the big change they did was they called it a time-released technology, I guess. So, and they, through a lot of just shady practices, it seems like they bribed the FDA. They hired lots of ex-FDA people after they approved the drug and they promised them all this stuff. They got the FDA to approve OxyContin, and the big thing was that they called it time release. And they said that it was believed that, and that, that word believe is important. It's the first time the FDA ever said that it's believed that less than 1% of people who takes OxyContin will ever get addicted. So what they do is they go and hire literally 2,000 salespeople who go to all of these hospitals, these doctors, these clinics, and they say, hey, look, we have this new drug. It's for moderate pain. It's You can use to prescribe Vicodin only if someone had surgery and had major pain, or if they were dying from cancer. We have this new drug, very few people get addicted to it, and it has a time-release capsule, which means that it's really hard to get addicted to. So you can give this to people if they just have like a sore back, or if they have headaches, like it's not that big of a deal. And they train these salespeople and they're very aggressive about training. They hold contests where you can win a trip to Bermuda if you sell a certain amount of drugs. You could do all these types of things where they would give like watches, they would throw parties with hot girls, like they did all this stuff, but it was for medicine, particularly an opioid, which is incredibly controversial in my opinion, very unethical. And so they make OxyContin popular to the point where the company is privately owned. It's owned by two families, uh, each the Mortimer and Raymond's family. Uh, I believe Raymond's son Richard becomes CEO and they grow this company to be doing like $30 billion a year in revenue. And they're also famous because in order to help their reputation, they donate billions or hundreds of millions, maybe billions that added up to, to art museums. And so the Met in New York, they have a Sackler wing, like the, the Louvre in Paris. Wow. They have a Sackler wing. They, these guys never went to Harvard, but there's like the Harvard School or the Harvard Museum that's for the Sacklers. There's the Columbia, there's the NYU. Like they've donated so much of their money to arts and it's basically what they call it, uh, reputation laundering. So they try to like get like into high society, even though they're selling this drug. Turns out 2 years ago, I think the government finally cracked down on them, made them go bankrupt. And I'm not sure where they are now, but they're very private. So that's the story of Purdue Pharma. The book Empire Paints Rose.
Oh, wait. So sorry that the end was the government cracks down on them and it goes bankrupt. So the government did what? 'Cause isn't Oxy still like everywhere?
Well, so what's— I, I'm, I don't know much about these types of drugs, but there's OxyContin, that's like the brand name, and then there's oxycodone, and I think that's the generic drug, and then there's hydrocodone, and then there's, there's all these forms of opioids. I think you could still get OxyContin, but basically at first the government made them pay a $10 million settlement, and then people spent 5 years trying to track 'em down and like find like one thing that they did that broke the law because it was very weird because they weren't actually breaking the law, or if they were, it was very hard to find which law they were breaking because the FDA kind of colluded and allowed them to get away with a lot of stuff. So technically they kind of weren't breaking the law. They got hauled up in front of Congress. And what the government eventually does is they're like, oh, you lied to Congress because you said you didn't know it was addicting, but we found this email from 4 years ago where you did say you knew it was addicting. And so that's actually what they got charged with, sort of like how Al Capone got charged with tax evasion, not killing people. It was sort of one of those things. And that led to a domino effect where eventually they had to pay something like an $8 billion settlement. The Sackler family had to give up control of the company and they were no longer allowed to be involved in this industry. And so that's kind of where we are today, where Purdue Pharma, it still exists, but not as it did before. But we'll see if there's any actually long-lasting change with all that. But it's a really fun story, like in the sense of it's thrilling in that they were just horribly unethical. They did a lot of crazy shit. Does that make sense?
Yeah, I mean, this basically killed hundreds of thousands of people, right? Like just through addiction.
It killed hundreds of thousands. It killed hundreds of thousands of people directly in that hundreds of thousands of people just taking that medicine were killed. But then what it led to is what we experienced in San Francisco and all these other places. You take Oxy and then you're like, I love this. I need more of it. Now I need something cheaper and something more accessible, heroin. And then which leads to fentanyl. And so it creates this huge opioid crisis where Purdue was like, hey, we didn't do that. We just prescribed OxyContin. These guys are dying from heroin. When everyone's like, man, it's such a clear, like, there's such a clear transition here. Like, you guys are definitely responsible. So that's why it's like a thrilling story.
At Harvard, there's still this, this building is still called the Sackler, whatever, the Sackler Museum or whatever it's called, uh, still up, which is kind of crazy that they haven't sort of canceled the, the name off the building.
So here's where things get interesting. And this is what I want to talk about. So I mentioned there was 3 brothers, only 2 brothers owned Purdue. So the eldest brother, his name was Arthur. He died in, I think, uh, the late '80s or mid-'80s. And basically he was the eldest brother and he got them all into the industry. When he died, his estate sold his portion of Purdue to the other brothers. And the other brothers are the ones who Purdue eventually created OxyContin. And so Arthur's heirs are like, look, we had nothing to do with this. It's same name, but like we had nothing to do with this. And Arthur was the one who liked to donate a lot of money to museums. So same last name, but their argument is that it's different people. Arthur was incredibly shady, and I want to tell you his background. This is where things get really interesting. So check this out. So this guy Arthur Sackler, he was the eldest brother, so he was a patriarch. He kind of, and he brought in his two brothers into the business and he was originally a doctor, but his first hit was as he was a doctor, he started an advertising age. Agency, a medical advertising agency. And he studied copywriting. That was his thing. He learned about copywriting through a traditional agency where he would work at a traditional agency at nights and weekends in order to help pay the bills. And he was like, copywriting is awesome. I gotta do this for Valium or this other drug, this other drug. And so all these huge pharmaceutical companies at the time, this was in the '50s, '60s, and eventually '70s. Like, um, what, what's that big one? Roche. R-O-C-H-E. I believe that they were the inventors of Valium. And they start saying, hey Arthur, your little agency, we hear you have good ideas. What are your ideas? He's like, well, we have to hire a sales force. Then we're going to create these ads. We're not allowed to advertise towards consumers, but we can advertise towards doctors. And they popularize Valium by making it like an everyday drug. Like, oh, if you're a little stressed, And you know, just like you would take an Advil, just pop a V, pop a V, you'll be calm. And they have like housewives vacuuming in pearls, like with a Valium, uh, like logo. Or he also popularizes tranquilizers, so he makes them popular. So he builds up this, uh, agency, but in secrecy he does two things that are interesting. One, he finds his, uh, competition is another medical pharmaceutical ad agency. And he buys half of it. And so what they, what he does is he eventually corners the market for pharmaceutical advertising and he owns the other one secretly. And he'll say stuff like, look, you don't want to work with us? Fine. Go to our competitors. They sound like they're a good fit for you. And they collude together on how to like market together and like which techniques are working. The second thing that he does is he creates this thing called the Medical Tribune. It's a bi-monthly newsletter for doctors. So he's in the newsletter industry. He gets a free thing, a free newsletter that is eventually read by 300, 400, 500,000 doctors. And he, what he does is no one knows at the time that he owns it, but he starts using his original company, MacArthur, for advertising, buys ads in the Medical Tribune. And through this, he creates two huge companies and that is how he creates his original fortune. And I found, I went and like dug through the Newspapers.com, that's one of my favorite sources. You can find old newspaper clippings. I found some of the numbers, so check this out. So McAdams, sorry, I called it MacArthur, it's called McAdams. When he died, the company was doing $170 million a year in revenue, and that was in 1985, I believe. It had 170 employees. And then his other company, Medical Tribune, it was, it was not sold for a significant amount of money. It actually sold for around $70 million to Axel Springer. Who also bought Morning Brew, our friend Austin's company. So I've been giving him a hard time about this.
Austin Sackler.
Yeah, for sure. Austin Sackler. And so annual revenues for Medical Tribune range between $50 to $80 million in the last few years of existence. This was in the late '80s and adjusted for today, that's around $150 to $200 million a year. He also, Arthur, while he was doing this, he was buying, he owned like 3 New York City townhomes. He was making 7, sometimes 8-figure dollar donations. To art, to museums, and he had an art collection valued at $60 million. When he died, I think he was 75, that was in the late '80s, he was worth around $150 million, which today is around $400 million. Maybe 5 or 6 years after that, that's when Oxy was created. But besides the fact that these guys are, you know, do illegal, horrible, unethical things, what's crazy is this guy owned 2 companies that were doing close to each of them over $100 million a year, and it was medical advertising and a medical newsletter for doctors. And he owned— it was him and his wife owned the whole thing. So like super fascinating background story, uh, about how this guy originally got wealthy.
Wow, prolific, prolific family, uh, for sure. That's crazy. That's a crazy story.
It's crazy. So a lot of the stuff like that the Purdue family or the Sackler family is about, it's about OxyContin. And I thought that was interesting, but what I thought was really interesting was just like, I was like, well, just from an entrepreneur's perspective, how to get started. And so I did all this research where I dug deep and then I went into like a, I use this thing, it's like a historical money calculator. And so it helps you calculate how much money is worth today. I then went, looked at real estate prices from the '70s and '80s in New York City, and I found out how much he was paying for homes. And I found, and I basically like reverse engineered like the income from this medical newsletter because I was just curious how it works. I think, by the way, that still works today. There was another company, I don't know if you remember this, but there was a company that used to give out free TVs to doctors. TV. And these TVs had like skeletons on them, and you could like, you could like move the skeleton around in order to like show like, all right, your colon is actually right here, and we'll zoom in on that. But on the TV was ads for drugs. And this company eventually got in trouble, interestingly enough, for fraud. It turns out they were lying about a lot of stuff. But this pharmaceutical industry is so interesting to me because it's something that we're supposed to trust. Turns out it's a lot of it's bullshit and it's just as shady as someone would say that this MyFreeCams website is, or even worse. And it's really fascinating how this whole industry works. But medical newsletters, super fascinating. A legit company, Axel Springer, which is a $5 billion German newspaper company, bought it. And so I actually think these still work today. And if you go on TV—
is it still running, by the way, or no?
No, they shut it down. They, uh, I believe they shut it down. And like everything involving Sacklers, like people don't want to have anything to do with it. But if you, um, if you're on— do you ever watch cable TV?
Yeah, sometimes.
Dude, it's only car commercials and drug commercials. That's like all it is, is like Cialis and like it's— so anyway, this pharmaceutical advertising industry, it's— I would never enter it, but it's really fascinating how it's done. And it's incredibly lucrative. It created this fortune and I think it could still create more.
Well, I put this out there before, which was that we get asked a bunch about, hey, I'm doing a newsletter. Can you help? Can you invest? Can you advise? Whatever. And we've basically, I think both of us say no to pretty much all of them. The one that I think is interesting still, or two, the two areas that I am interested is who's doing an amazing job of this in real estate and who's doing an amazing job of this with a newsletter for doctors. Those are the two that I really care about. And I'm like, I really want to find whoever's doing a great job of that and, you know, invest or advise or partner with them to like, help make that bigger. Cause I think those spaces are amazing spaces if you have the right person going, like doing it the right way. There's a lot of nuance to it, but, um, yeah, I still think this idea would just work again and they sell for huge multiples.
So Aging Media did this for nursing homes. So somewhat senior living. Yeah. Somewhat related. I, I don't remember the multiple, but I heard rumors. It was like 15 times profit, which is really great. Uh, And so these businesses are still super lucrative. And I think what Arthur did, whether you think that's good or bad, the way that he did it, I think is bad inherently. I don't think it's bad, but the way that he did it is, I think it's still incredibly lucrative.
So let me tell you, let me tell you another story about a smart weirdo. All right, so here's the smart weirdo.
This is the episode, smart weirdos slash maybe bad people.
A million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool? A billion dollars.
Okay, so we have some actually multiple contenders. This is a Billy of the Week runoff, actually. Maybe this is actually a campaign, but this guy is is doing something interesting. So his name's Steve Davis. You probably don't know who that is just because it's a fairly generic name.
Pool?
Yes. Snooker pool.
Some kind of pool if you had the wrong color balls or something. So this guy is Elon Musk's long-trusted right-hand man. So let me tell you about this guy. He joined SpaceX back in 2003. So very early on, crazy background. He's got a twin master's degree in particle physics and aerospace engineering, right? So, you know, guy's got a dome on him and he, but I think what he was doing, I think he was doing something like completely unrelated, but he was one of the first employees that ended up getting hired by SpaceX. I, for some reason, I feel like I remember he wasn't working in the industry. He was doing something else, and then he got hired. And the stories about this guy are kind of legendary. So when Elon bought Twitter, people were like, who's he going to make CEO? And a lot of people were like, it's going to be Steve Davis before he put the lady from NBC in charge, which was sort of a weird pick. It seemed like it was going to be Steve Davis. Why? Because Steve Davis was living and sleeping in the Twitter office with his wife and their newborn child that they had just birthed like 3 weeks prior.
What a brownnoser.
Intense. So this guy, if you go read the stories about him, it's like folklore. So one person said he has been working 6 hours a day every single day, 7 days a week for years and years. Another person said he's insane. He gets more work done than 11 people working together, just himself. What? One time, one time, Elon Musk they were doing something with the production of a part in one of the parts of the rocket, I guess. And this was a $120,000 part. And Elon's like, we need to get this down to $5,000. And nobody was— everyone's like, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, of course. I wish it was free too, but like, that's just not how things work. He's like, $5,000. And he just left the room, right? And Steve Davis takes that as a personal challenge. He's just working for months and months to try to figure out how can we do this for $5K instead of $120K. He ends up getting it done for $3,900. He figures out a way to do it. He emails Elon so excited. Elon, we did it. After months, we figured out how to lower the price of this part down to only less than $4,000. You said $5,000. We got it down to less than $4,000. Elon just replies, okay, period. It doesn't matter. Steve Davis is undeterred from this. And he just keeps going. He's become, now he's the CEO of Boring Company. So Elon's like, you know, third company or whatever that he created after All that, right?
And that company's legit, right? Boring company. They actually are making stuff, or is it just like a t-shirt company?
No, they are doing things, but there's a lot of criticisms. Like, uh, cool, like, how, um, you know, how, how's that tunnel going? Yeah, right? Like, where's— what's going on? You dug this tunnel, but like, it's only compatible with Teslas, and they have to put like rollerblades on before they go through it. It's like, I don't know, this seems kind of shitty, right, dude?
I want my cities to look like Swiss cheese, just holes all over the place. Like, what's going on? You're just selling flamethrowers.
And so on one hand, they have improved the speed of boring, of actually digging the tunnels. But the reason I found this guy interesting, so not only is he like Elon's right-hand man that you haven't heard of, that I find that interesting. Not only is he probably worth maybe a billion dollars at this point, based on the SpaceX stock has appreciated like crazy since 2003. But this guy's totally weird. So he's got a great sense of humor that he takes to business. Okay. So basically Elon sends him, Elon trusts him, right? He's like, hey, we need somebody on the ground in, he's got this city in Texas and at one point he sent him to DC for lot, like, you know, they needed to be near, uh, DC because a lot of their contracts are government contracts. So he's like, send Steve out to DC from California. And Steve's living there. He's doing his job, but he's like, God, you know what I miss? I miss just having great frozen yogurt. He's like, they don't have that DC. He's like, all I got is this crap. I miss the California frozen yogurt. You know what? So as a side job from his very important job at SpaceX, He opens up a froyo shop called Mr. Yogato, and he not just opens it up, he goes and he works there after work for fun. What? And so he goes and he works there and he starts to make it fun for himself. He creates just a bunch of ridiculous policies. So if you go to Mr. Yogato, if you can stump him with a Seinfeld question, your froyo's free. If you come in dressed as, uh, Bjorn Bjergsen, Borg or whatever, the tennis player, or not. I don't use the tennis player. Maybe there's a musician or something. You get 25% off if you let him stamp Mr. Yogato on your forehead, 10% off. And so he created this long list of rules essentially on the secret menu for what he could do. And then when he had to leave, he had to move away. SpaceX needed him in some other place. He's like, oh, shit, I'm not going to be able to go work in my yogurt shop after work. Okay. Hey, whoever comes to Mr. Yogato today, one of you is going to get the shop for a dollar. He just gave the shop to some guy for a dollar at the end. It's like, here's the keys. The only rules, I want to keep being able to come here and eat half off. And also you got to keep some of the rules alive. Like if you can recite a speech from Braveheart in a Scottish accent, 20% off. And so he does this yogurt shop. He also ended up at one point—
The headline, if you Google Mr. Yogato, is, it's from an article in the Washingtonian. It says Twitter's next CEO might be the Mr. Yogato dude.
Yeah. He goes, bro, like the rules are amazing. You just, you should go look at the rules of this. Rule number 8, anyone wearing a kickball uniform and has played hard, evidenced by dirt on their knees, will automatically receive 10% off their yogurt. Anybody who can reenact the 47-second Michael Jackson Thriller dance, 20% off. If you perform a shorter choreographed dance, you can get 10% off.
This is actually genius, by the way. Order a yogurt for 30 consecutive days and we'll name a flavor after you. I mean, this guy's awesome.
Yeah. So he is having a good time. So then he opens up a bar called Thomas Foolery, short name Tom Foolery, and same thing. Instead, you know, every bar has a happy hour. Created the Angry Hour, where if you shout your order of the drink to the bartender angrily, you get a discount on your drink. They served like cookies and ice cream at this thing. And he's like, this is a place where we're going to take you back to being a kid, but with alcohol.
Oh my God.
And I was like, dude, I love this guy. This guy is hilarious and weird in all the best ways. And I just went down this rabbit hole because this guy kind of fascinates me. There's nothing about this guy really on the internet. Nobody does interviews with him. Um, people discovered this Mr. Yogato thing, but there's not much out there about him.
How'd you find the marketing?
There's only a few times, uh, that's like, you know, part, you know, just digging in, like, what are some of the other craziest things that this guy does? When they announced, um, the Boring Company, it was a press conference with Elon and some guy. The some guy is Steve Davis sitting next to him during the, the talk. And what they did was to make their point, and this is, I, I kind of love this marketing. To make their point that like, why did you create The Boring Company? And he was like, well, in like whatever, 100 years, we haven't gotten any faster at drilling. Like we're still the same speed we were like 50, 75 years ago at digging these tunnels. Nobody's done anything innovative. And to do when they did the press conference, it's them talking, but around them is a circular track. And on that track, they put a little like a snail or a slug or something. And it was just walking around the track super slowly to represent how slow this industry is and how slow other people are drilling. And at the end of the 2-hour seminar, it was still only halfway around the thing. Oh my God. And they were like, you know, that's the industry today and we're gonna change it. I love these little nuggets, these little sort of like marketing gimmicks that make a point in the sort of simplest, most, uh, memeable, viral way possible. Uh, you know, I gotta give Elon credit and, uh, this guy Steve, receive credit for how they do that.
Where, where did he work before? How do you get a job with Elon?
Uh, well, just early on, you know, if you're twin master's degree in particle physics and aerospace engineering, there's not that many places to go work. You work at NASA or you work, you know, uh, Boeing, or you go work here, right? So he, he got a job there early on and just like started grinding like crazy. And that's why, like, even now just sort of grinds like crazy, sleeping in the office with the, with his newborn child that was just like, His wife just, just gave birth.
I have a rule. We have a rule in our house, in the, in the Parr house, where I will only sleep under another man's roof for one night. And if it's my father, if it's my father-in-law's house, he gets two nights. I don't like sleeping at another man's home. It's the most emasculating thing on earth. I can't imagine moving my wife and newborn baby into the Twitter office. Can you go to my boss? Yeah, my boss's house. Like, Elon's like, hey, how's our wife doing?
Like, you're like a billionaire. Yeah, you're not like an intern.
Yeah, you're, you're like, I don't even like— I don't stay at another man's house and I don't even like staying at my father-in-law's house, let alone staying at the Twitter HQ. Can you imagine with a newborn? With a newborn or a baby? I can't imagine that. That's not for me, dog.
What, what's your phrase? Cornrows and face tattoos. Yeah. It's not for me, but I'm glad freaks like you exist. Yes. I'm glad it exists.
Sleeping at the office with my wife and baby. You got, you can have that. I'm happy you exist, but, but that ain't for me. Is there any part of you that is envious of this guy? Because I don't find any amount of envy other than I appreciate his sense of humor.
Oh yeah. I think this guy's great. I think, uh, do I want to be him?
No. That's what I mean.
Do I? Think that this guy's probably, you know, this guy's interesting and seems like he thinks differently and I think I could learn or be inspired by it.
Sure.
For sure. For example, I went deep. So one of the things he did while he was working at SpaceX and they moved him to DC, in addition to the yogurt shop, he went to George Mason and got like a PhD and his thesis. I found his thesis paper and I read it. Which was very hard. I don't want to go into too much detail on it.
How did you find this? I, when I'm Googling him, I can't, you can barely find anything. It's the same like 4 photos.
Just a lot of grit and determination.
You're the Steve Davis. You're the Steve Davis of researching Steve Davis.
Exactly. I apply it to searching, researching other great men more so than being one myself.
You slept on your couch for literally hours to find this. It was literally I ignored my newborn child also.
So I'm just going to read you two things. So first, the paper, the reason I liked it is it's about the debasement of the US currency. I think he wrote this in, uh, what year was this? It's basically like very, it's very early. It's like kind of like early, early Bitcoin days. So let me just say Steve Davis debasement. Um, so yeah, 2010. And his paper's called The Trend Towards the Debasement of the American Currency.
And he talks in a lot of— does that mean it's at the bottom?
Does that mean devaluing? Devaluing. So, so, you know, he, he talks about the history of like, you know, basically, uh, you know, I don't have my notes in front of me now, but like, uh, one of the things he talks about is, you know, um, did you take notes on this?
Is this just for yourself?
Yeah. So I was like, you know, he's like $1 or whatever, you know, 1, or sorry, 1 ounce of gold was worth this many dollars before. And now that same ounce of gold requires whatever, like, you know, 100x more dollars. Like basically like we used to be pegged to gold. We got off the gold standard and look at how, look at how much the dollar is devalued relative to gold in that time. And he's basically like, there's a trend towards The debasement of currency. And he talks about like, people think this is like a, you know, over time, slow, slow thing, but actually like 95% of the debasement has just happened in the last like 40, 50 years or something like that. Like it has accelerated quickly and this is not just like, yeah, this is not just like, you know, a slow thing. All right, here we go. So 98.3% has occurred. From 1792 to the present time. But even if you shorten that, like still 90% of it happened in a very short window of time. He talks about why, he talks about how, he talks about like what that, why that's such a big problem. And this is basically like a cryptocurrency, like, like precursor. He's not talking about Bitcoin in it, but this is like, this is crypto is a solution to this problem, right?
What if you had a currency that could not be debased? Exactly., which is like the meme, but it's also like the truth. It's like these things are cliché because there's an element of truth in them. That's why they stick around. In his acknowledgments in this paper, so he says, oh, I want to thank this professor, this professor. I want to thank this person. And at the end he's like, I want to thank my mom and dad. He's like, finally, thanks to the unknown chef that makes great brownies at the Small Enterprise Hall cafeteria. Hopefully they will one day become a topping at Mr. Yogato or its successor, Little Yohai.
Dude, this guy's been plotting.
This guy's just hilarious, man. This guy is just so funny to me. And, uh, yeah, there's like a 100-page paper if you want to go read it.
The most impressive part is that you read this guy's thesis paper and you got as far as to the acknowledgments at the end.
No, no, acknowledgments at the beginning, my friend. That's like the, uh, the thank you at the beginning of a book. Uh, so I didn't read the whole thing. It was a 162-page thesis. I read like 40 pages maybe. That's so impressive. And he's like step by step, step by step where the debasement started and how it happened. And I'm like, oh wow, this is fascinating. Like I never knew any of this.
Is that what you have to do to become a, to get your PhD is to write a 140-page like original work on something? That's amazing. I didn't think, I didn't know that theses were that long.
Not only do we not have a PhD, we honestly don't even know what the hell a PhD is or what it takes to get one.
I used to tell people I had my PhD. I thought it meant poor, hardworking, and driven. Uh, like, that was my joke.
I, I play a Hayden degree.
Yeah, I didn't realize that it's— you have to write a 100+ page, like, report on this. That's amazing.
Like, I'm not that hungry and driven.
Yeah, yeah, definitely not. That sounds really challenging.
Uh, by the way, one of the great get-to-know-you questions in the business world that's sort of dorky, but actually is a good one, which is if you had to give an impromptu 45-minute talk on a subject, what would you give it on? Like for you, it might be like copywriting or newsletters, right? Like something like that.
The history of denim. What? I'm not joking. I could do it. You want to talk about denim? I got you. What would yours be?
There is no answer that is better than that answer. I don't even want to continue the podcast. It was so good.
You see, the thing about looms is in the pre-war— evolution of the George— yeah, the shuttle looms pre-1944 were particularly special. But you know, I could talk all about it. And then post-war, when Japan was rebuilding Hiroshima, they needed just a ton of machinery, and that's what the Shutter Looms of America went to Japan. I mean, I could do it.
Let's— that's insane. All right, your, your turn. What's your topic?
Where do we go from here?
Um, you want to do Postpilot? I like Postpilot.
All right, let's talk about—
I invested in Postpilot. Did you?
Yeah, me too. Um, I didn't— you know, I don't like, as you call it, talking your own book too much. I don't like talking about stuff that I'm involved in, but since we're both involved about it and we're upfront, we could talk about it.
Well, explain what it is first.
Yeah, so let's talk about it. So Our connection to Postpilot is with the owner. His name is Drew, but he actually bought the company. And the reason he bought the company was because he owned, he used to buy software companies. So he bought designinpublic.com, he bought karmaloop.com, and then he owned this thing called Auto Anything, which was an auto parts store. And the thing about his whole like playbook is that he would buy these e-com companies and he would be like, well, your email list, stinks, so we can like improve that. We can do this, we can do that. And one of the things that he used to do at these companies that worked really well was he would email or mail them, like snail mail them, like flyers, direct mail, and direct mail pamphlets on the company. However, it was really hard to do. It was like a painstaking process. And so he bought this company called Postpilot. He bought it, I think he bought it for $60,000. And what it does is if you're an e-com brand, you just sign up to Postpilot and they plug in, I think, to Shopify, to WooCommerce, to like a lot of the popular platforms. And they have a done-for-you service, meaning they'll help you design a pamphlet that you could send to not only your customers, but I think some of your email subscribers and people who haven't already bought from you. And they can send direct mail in a click of a button. And so what he has found, like his whole thesis is like, look, if I have an email list and some of these companies that I bought, their email list was 100,000 people, but 90,000 people wouldn't even open the email. 10,000 would, but how do I get the other 90,000 people to interact with me? Well, let's just send them mail. And so they created a process that you can use someone's address that they've already supplied to you, or I believe what they do is you can, you can use someone's email and phone number and help use other data sources to find out roughly where you live, and they'll send mail to you or that area, or people who match your— it's like a lookalike audience, and they send you mail and they could track if you eventually bought something through their mail. So it's a very ROI-positive business., uh, uh, ROI positive marketing channel. And I think he bought this company in 2018. He bought it for $60 grand. It's making well over $60 grand a day now. I think that the last, the public information that they said was they crossed $10 million a year in revenue, uh, like 18 months ago, I think. And it's growing like a weed. And he sends amazing investor updates, uh, where like there'll be like a theme. So for example, him and his co-partner, him and his partner sent an update where it was him and his partner dressed like stepbrothers. Uh, and so like he does these really funny updates, but the business is growing like a weed. It's growing crazy. And they're, um, it's really fascinating. Is that what, what I'm not an e-com guy.
Is that what you, what, how you use it? So, so we use it and like, you know, if you advertise on Facebook or you advertise on Google and, you know, the key metric for any e-commerce brand is your return on ad spend., when it comes to marketing. So you spend $100 on ads, what's your return? Are you going to get $100 back? Are you going to get $200 back? You can get $50 back. $50 would be a 0.5 return on ad spend. $200 would be a 2.0, uh, return on ad spend. If you can be like getting a 2.0 return on ad spend at scale, you're printing money, right? You're putting in $100, you're getting $200 out every single day. And, um, that's, uh, you know, obviously if you could scale that up, that's, that's extremely, extremely lucrative. If you use Postpilot, you can get like a 10x return on ad spend. It's not the most scalable, but it is pretty ridiculous, the type of return you get.
He said a lot of people are getting 5 to 10x. He said most retention campaigns come in between 5 and 10. So like he kills it. I don't use it.
Yeah. These are, these are like retention, right? So you're, you know, you're trying to get people to they come back or you're trying to get a warm lead who hasn't bought from you, but they gave you their, their info to try to convert. So it's, you know, obviously different for a completely new customer versus returning customer versus whatever. But the blended ROAS for these is really, really good. So it's very effective, right? You send a postcard, it's got a bunch of, it's got photos, it's got photos on it, it's got an offer on it. And the cool thing what they did was they basically took this, they weren't the first to do, you know, how do you send mail campaigns? We'll send it for you. What they did was they're treating it like it's Klaviyo. So most people outside of e-commerce don't even know about Klaviyo except for the fact that it just filed to go public. So now a bunch of people are paying attention to this like $10 billion company that raised very little money. Email marketing for, um, for e-commerce actually didn't raise very little. It raised $400 million. It only burned, sorry, net $15 million, which just shows how capital efficient it is.
That's what I mean. Yeah.
Sorry. Um, so every e-com brand basically uses Klaviyo at this point. Um, it is like the, the, the dominant player in the space. There's some others like SendLane or whatever, but they basically said, we're going to automate this. So like, we will take all your, your customer data from Shopify and we'll be like, cool. Um, when somebody first joins, we'll put, make a welcome flow. So automatically it'll drip out like 1 hour after they, after they sign up for emails, they'll get this 3 days later, they'll get this. And 30 days later they'll get this.
Klaviyo.
Klaviyo.
Yeah.
Yeah. And now what Postpile did was they took the same thing. They were like, cool, you want to send a one-off blast? You can just go in our editor and do that. You want to create automated flows that are just going to be triggered based on customer behavior? You can do that too. So they basically did for physical mail the same thing that Klaviyo did for digital mail, which is very, very smart. Um, so yeah, anyways, I think they're, they're doing really well and we'll see kind of how, how big, I think the only question of this one is just how big does it get? It's a high floor. Unknown ceiling. So it's like, uh, this business is definitely going to work. Now the question is, is it a— yeah, even when we first invested, it was like this clear this was going to work.
And it was a low— it was a low valuation compared to everything else. It was not low, it was a reasonable valuation compared to everything else. I think I have about $25 grand in the company.
Yeah, I did something similar. It wasn't— it wasn't like, you know, massive, massive bet, but, um, you know, the question is, is this going to be a $50 million business, $100 million business, a $500 million business, or billion-dollar business? I have no idea on that one. Like, we'll see. But, um, but it's definitely like, it was like a clear, this isn't going to be a zero type of investment. So I did this one personally, not out of the fund, because I was like, you know, you don't know the profile of this one.
I thought, so I have $25,000 of my own money into the company. I think I, I, in my head when I was looking at it, I was like, I think the, The likely worst case scenario is that this will sell for $70 or $80 million. I was like, I think I could 5x, 4x my money. I think in an unlikely but high outcome scenario, I was like, many, many, many hundreds of millions of dollars this could sell for. And I could for sure, 100%, 10x this, maybe more. That was kind of my thinking with that investment. And $25,000 of my own money is, I usually do small small checks. That, that's a smaller checks. That's a, that's a good one for me.
Right on. Um, I have some other topics, but I think we should save them. One thing I want to do is I want to start doing episodes that are business ideas only. So sometimes, basically, if you take an episode of My First Million, you, you kind of don't know what you're going to get. There's a box. You might get a Billy of the Week story about crazy people who have done crazy things. You might get a business breakdown like we did with OnlyFans, just like, Here's a business, here's the numbers, here's how it's doing. Maybe it's a business like Postpilot, like a business you never heard of that's doing really well. We kind of expose you to the sort of things that are under the radar or not on your radar. And then sometimes we do ideas and opportunities, things that we think people could do that could work. And Monday, I say, I'm proposing this to you Monday. I think we should do, when we record Monday, we should do business ideas only.
I think, uh, I think we're good Monday and I have a good one, which are people's favorites.
The, the business ideas and opportunities is definitely people's favorites. Um, so we'll do that, but you know, if we're gonna do that, people gotta do something for us, right? Like, I don't know about you, but if I kiss, I like to get kissed back. If I hug, I like to get hugged back. And if I provide value, I like to get value.
Yes means yes.
Yeah. And all we need from you to give value back, put your wallet away. You know, we don't, it doesn't take money.
It's not free though. It ain't free.
It ain't free. It sure as hell ain't free, but, but your money's no good here. What we do need is for you to take that little finger of yours, open up the podcast app, click subscribe, go to My First Million, click subscribe. The next thing you're going to do is go to YouTube.
Any— Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever, whatever's your comfortable place. I'm not trying to get you to go somewhere you're not comfortable. Go where you're comfortable, but just make sure you're clicking subscribe. Now go to YouTube. You may— YouTube, go open YouTube. Type in My First Million, click subscribe, hit the little bell so you get alerts. We need both of those things from you. We just need it. And I don't ask for much, but I ask for this. Don't let me down.
And if you want, leave a comment. You could leave a comment. We read all of them and we even— the funniest ones we send to each other. Particularly if they make fun of us.
Yeah, the most insulting ones definitely get the most attention, and, uh, we can't resist. We're not one of those— we're not those people who are like, nah, I don't read the comments, I don't read the haters.
Read all of them. We read you.
Yeah, think about you.
And I recognize usernames.
You're living in our head.
Yes, I've Googled some of these people. I do a reverse Google image search and find out their LinkedIn. And here, I'll actually leave, uh, I'll leave like a hint. So for next Monday, you, you can see on here which company I'm talking about if you scroll down. So I was going to start this with a business that used to exist that was way ahead of its time that I think should exist today.
Now is the time.
Now is the time. If you could possibly pull this off. Do you agree with me? Do you see what company I'm talking about?
I know what you're talking about. I agree with you. I can't wait to talk about that one. And I have one that is. Similar to one of the best businesses in Andrew Wilkinson's portfolio, and I think you could create a new version of that that would work really well. That's the teaser.
All right, Manic Monday, we'll call it. I don't know, we just go from ideas to ideas, or where we just look at the comments and just stress out over like blemishes we have on our face. But it's Manic Monday, so you don't have to pay money for this show, but it ain't for free. And you know how to pay for it. So, all right, that's the pod.