Brendan Schaub: From UFC Fighter To Comedian & Podcaster

Back to the point of, you know, getting tossed in the deep end, you know, I'm doing standup for about 2 years. I think I'm the fastest comic to ever get a network special at Showtime. So I was like, no, for the most part, people are like, oh, this guy's been doing it 2 years. This is good for him. No, man. When you do that, what happens is it actually pushes you further away from them.

We're live now. Brendan Schaub, what's going on? I'm Sam, this is Sean. Um, we just get right into things, but we, uh, Sean and I have been huge fans of you for a long time. You were both huge UFC fans. We go to a bunch of those shows, been watching you on Fire the Kid for a while. Uh, then the show with Theo Von. Yeah, that was awesome. So we've been fans forever. I think, uh, we each actually might have a Thicc Boi shirt.

I love it.

I don't have the shirt, just the body actually. So I'm a real fan. I went all the way.

Thanks in the heart, fellas. Thanks in the heart.

I don't drink, otherwise I would have your whiskey.

Whiskey, yeah.

But you do lots of stuff. I'll give what I know about you, but basically you're from Colorado, played a little bit in the NFL. I don't know if you actually made the cut entirely, but you were very serious for the Broncos. Went into the UFC, you did awesome. You knocked out some great guys. Um, and then, uh, you got into show business via podcast. So you originally were just on Joe Rogan a bunch, eventually launched your own thing, and now you have Fighter and the Kid, but you also have like 3 or 4 other podcasts, right? That I don't know how, how, how big are they? I mean, I know that you get, you have, uh, hundreds of thousands of subscribers and each video gets like hundreds of thousands of views, but I actually don't know like how big the empire is.

Yeah, sure. So just going back to like the football.

Yeah.

So I played, at University of Colorado for the Buffs, who they just got Dion Sanders. So I'm excited about that. And then I had a cup of coffee with the Buffalo Bills and I got there and they're like, we're all set on slow white guys. So that broke my heart. And then I, and then I, yeah. Then from there I was selling supplements door to door, like Pursuit of Happiness style. And then I started training in jiu-jitsu and boxing and then Next thing you know, you know, I'm fighting grown men in a steel cage in my underwear. And then 2 years after I started training, I was in the UFC.

I made it through The Ultimate Fighter, was a finalist there with Kimbo Slice, right?

Yeah. Yeah. It was the biggest season with Rashad Evans and Rampage Jackson. So, yeah. And then, you know, shortly after that, you know, there's a common theme in my life. It's like I get put in the deep end, man. It goes 0 to 100 in every aspect of my life. It's just this common theme throughout my entire career, whether comedy, football, fighting, whatever it is, podcasting. I get thrown in the deep end and I gotta figure it out. So, uh, I was in the UFC and then probably 2 years in the UFC, I'm next thing you know, I'm ranked top 10 in the world, you know, and it was terrifying. Um, but then slowly after that, I, um, I moved to LA cuz I grew up in, uh, Venice Beach in the summers at my uncle's house when I was a, a, a young boy. My dad would always bring me out here for the summers. So I always felt, you know, a weird connection to Los Angeles. So once I could make the move, I made the move and then I started a podcast. This is damn near 11 years ago, 12 years ago. I started a podcast called The Fighter and the Kid with Brian Callen. And yeah, that thing took off. And then now fast forward to 2023, I own a, a podcast network. So the Think Boy Network where we have, You know, probably around 7 shows, you know. So yeah, so between The Fire and the Kid, The Shop Show, Food Truck Diaries, uh, Fight Companion, uh, The Golden Hour, you know, it's, uh, it's going well. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.

Yeah, your, uh, your output's pretty insane. And you know, the thing about— you, you said you got thrown in the deep end, and you're kind of right. Like, transitioning from football to UFC was a really short transition, and then you're doing it at the kind of the high level. You're in the actual UFC. It takes most guys like a long, long amateur journey. Then they go to a small promotion, then they go to a bigger promotion. You kind of fast-tracked that. And then in comedy, you did the same thing where you kind of went from, I'm a UFC fighter to I'm a comedian to I got a special on Showtime really fast. And I think there's probably, I don't know, I don't know how you think about it now, but like there's good and bad with, with that fast track. On one hand, you learn fast. On the other hand, you kind of get your ass kicked because you're pushing the boundary further than maybe you were ready for or had.

Well, you're learning and you're learning publicly.

Yeah, there you go. Correct. So it's, you know, in hindsight, looking at it, even when I was in the UFC and in comedy, I just— I wish I had people around me that went, slow down, man. Now I'm fighting. You don't really have that option once you're in the UFC. You know, it's the big leagues. So, you know, they call you with Mirko Cro Cop or Matt Mitrione or, you know, Brock Lesnar, you got to take the fight. So you really don't have control there. I could have been smarter about making decisions, but I was young, you know, and had a lot of belief in myself. And, you know, eventually that experience catches up with you. You know, I was a lot more athletic than a lot of those heavyweights. That's why I excelled so fast. But again, that's a blessing and a curse because you get to a level where you're fighting these vets with 40, 50 fights and they've seen an athletic dude, you know, with a good right hand and, you know, good wrestling. But, you know, eventually, you know, you're this cheat code. Catches up to you. There's nothing replaces the experience. So, um, that was a blessing and a curse. A blessing as far as I was able to transition, get out and build a fan base and go into something I've always wanted to do. And I think comedy, you know, really, you know, it's true. When I started comedy, you know, um, I have some great mentors, you know, and Joe Rogan's like a brother, and Brian Callen and Dio Von and Tom Segura and Bert Kreischer and Joey Diaz. So I have just this plethora of just amazing comics that I was around. And I was only, you know, I'd go to dinner with them and do all, you know, the podcast with them, make them laugh. And they all encouraged me to do standup, which I, you know, always wanted to do since I was a child. So, you know, everyone told me it's going to be 10 years before you find your voice. I'm like, yeah, that, you know, I'm never scared of hard work. Let's do it. So the issue with that is You know, I get catapulted, you know. I'm— instead of doing open mics, you know, one of my first, uh, things I did was, uh, you know, Chicago theater, you know, um, the Vic Theater.

How did you even start? Because it's a big jump from, oh, this dude's funny when we hang out, cracks jokes, busball, oh yeah, this guy, this guy's good, he's a funny guy, to you're on stage and you got to do a set. That's like, that's like a It's like a different thing altogether. And, you know, me and Sam, we try to like, uh, we try to be, uh, funny in our little pond. It's like, you don't have to be that funny to be the funniest business podcast.

So we're, we're a dwarf among midgets is what we are.

Yeah, it's like, it's like everyone has that funny uncle at the party, you know. And if you're, you know, if you're— your brother's like, man, I think you're really funny. There's a big difference between your family and friends going, oh, you're funny, man, you should try stand-up. And then Burt Kreiser, Joe Rogan, Joey Diaz, Brian Callen, Chris D'Elia, and Theo Von going, dude, you need to do standup.

But what did you even do though to develop that first set? Are you reading a book? Are you, uh, are you just going to Joe Rogan's house with a notepad and being like, hey, how do I write this shit?

No, it's like sink or swim. So, you know, I had my 10,000 reps on podcasts with comedians, keeping up with them, making them laugh, being, you know, really quick at it. And then really it's almost the perfect situation in order to get started in standup because the Find the Kid got, you know, so popular. We do live Find the Kids. But remember, Brian Kelly's been doing comedy for 30 years. So when they— we got offered to do a live Find the Kid, I told Brian, I'm like, you ever been to a live podcast? They suck. It's two guys on the mic. They're the worst, dude. And Brian goes, no, man. No, no. I've been in show business for 30 years. We're gonna do a performance. So I go, okay, what do you wanna do? So we came up with this whole idea to make it a show. And, uh, Brian at the time knew I wanted to do standup, but he didn't want to, I guess, scare me because it is scary, you know, especially doing in front of these sold-out crowds when most people are doing open mics with 15 other salty comics, you know. So for me, you know, doing it in a sold-out crowd, Brian go, all right, here. Because Brian was always late to the podcast, you know. I'm very professional. I'm not late. I'm never late. And whatever, 12 years of podcast, I've never been late. It's not what I do. So Brian would be late and he used to drive me nuts. I used to roast him every time he'd come in late. He was like, so our first live show, let's keep up with the theme. We're going to pretend I'm late. I'm not there. And you got to start the show by yourself. So you're going to tell a story for 10 minutes and I'll come in. You get all upset. We do the whole act. I'm like, all right, cool. I'm like, I can handle that. So I tell a story because I was good at telling stories. So that carries on for, you know, 4 or 5 shows. And then again, we're at I forget, probably Portland or Seattle, some sold-out theater. And, uh, I'm backstage before the crowd. I'm pretty nervous. I tell Brian, I go, man, I don't know what story I'm gonna tell. You know, Brian was like frantic. He was, you know, again, he's looking for something. He goes, what? I go, I don't know what story I'm gonna tell. He goes, what the hell are you talking about?

No, you're doing stand-up, dumbass. I was like, oh shit. And then it just clicked. I'm like, oh, so storytelling. You just told me that. Cause you didn't want to scare me. I was like, crack, you're doing standup, dude. And I was like, oh, that's what I'm doing. So shortly after that, I come to the realization like, this is standup. You just, it's just your way of doing it. So then, um, we do a live flight with the kid at the Comedy Store, you know, the world famous Comedy Store, which as a kid was like, you know, the Mecca. It's like Madison Square Garden for basketball. So I, uh, we do the Comedy Store, goes great. And then 6 weeks or 6 days later, I'm driving. I get a call from the manager of the Comedy Store, Emily, and she calls me and she goes, Hey Brad, this is Emily at the Comedy Store. I go, hey, how you doing? She goes, great show the other day. I'm like, thank you. She goes, hey, we're seeing if you'd like to do a set in the belly room. Give, give you 6 minutes. I go, let me call Brian Callen, see if he's available. She goes, no, dumbass. Just you. You had a great set the other night. I'm like, me? You want me to do standup at the Comedy Store? She goes, yeah, it's a, it's in the small room, the belly room, but if you want 6 minutes, it's yours. So I was like, say less. So I did that and then it was just. You know, that was in 2014, 2015-ish, like early 2015, probably right around end of 2014. And then, you know, you get that bug and then it's off to the races, man. You know, I knew it was, you know, it takes a, takes a lot of work. But back to the point of, you know, getting tossed in the deep end, you know, I'm doing standup for about 2 years. I think I'm the fastest comic to ever get a network special at Showtime. And, you know, I just— in my eyes, I thought at the time, I'm proud of that special. Don't get me wrong, I challenge any comic who's been there 2 years to do a network special and have 60 minutes, you know. Now, is it as good as Bill Burr's special? No. But in my head, I thought people would see that and go, oh my God, for only doing 2 years, look at this guy. Think how much better he's going to get in 4 years and 5 years and 10 years and 50. We're just gonna be on 15 years. But a lot of people don't have that insight.

They don't give a shit about that.

Are you the CEO of the network now? I mean, how are you? So you're having to be the talent and you're running the business?

Did you raise money for that or did you just self-fund it?

What'd you do? Yeah, self-funded it from all the other shows and standup. I just put all my money into that.

And so whenever I start a new thing, I'm like, you know, people are like, oh, congrats. And I'm like, ah, ask me in a year. Like, we'll find out what's gonna be fun to find out. Like, this is either a bad idea, it's an all right idea, or it's an amazing idea. We'll find out. 'Cause you know, I go into things relatively blind. Like I don't do a ton of research before I go into things, but I, you know, I got confidence I'll figure things out eventually. But the reality is that some, some ideas are better than others. So a year in now, owning your own podcast network, is this a bad idea? Good. Okay. Good idea. Or is it an amazing, is it an amazing business?

So what about, uh, listeners? Like, Sean and I, the metrics that we know is downloads, which is— we describe downloads as like Spotify, YouTube, and also iTunes and all that shit. What do you— what's the size of your biggest show? I think it's Fire and the Kid. What size are you guys at now for that?

Well, see, so Finally Kid and The Golden Hour, which is formerly known as King of the Sting with Theo Von. So Finally Kid and King of the Sting, even though they're on the Thinkboy Network, those haven't changed. They're just under my banner. But those have— those weren't part of Showtime at all. Showtime was, uh, Below the Belt, which is now The Shop Show, Food Truck Diaries, um, and some other shows. And then I wasn't doing Fight to Pay with them. That's all new. So, you know, I would say probably cut my audience in half, you know, probably in half.

And what's the Fighter and the Kid at?

Yeah, we're at like, when we'll, we'll have guests on every once in a while and they'll be like, are you guys big? And they'll just look at the YouTube and like our YouTube only gets like 30,000, 20,000 all the way up to 200,000 per episode. But then our audio, it's like consistently 100, 200,000-ish or something like that. Like consistently every single time. And that's crushing it. And I'm like, no, it's pretty big. It's just like, you can't see those numbers. But our, our audio, I mean, it's like, that's like as true to subscription as you can get because it's just consistently a big—

Audio's king. Yeah, audio's king, but this new generation of podcasters coming in, you know, they see the Logan Pauls or the Andrew Schultz of the world and, you know, Rogan was massive on YouTube, but it's— again, and I don't know what Logan Paul's numbers are as far as audio. Logan Paul's a buddy. I guess I could find out, but because he's a YouTuber, his, his numbers are massive on YouTube. I'd be curious to see what his audio is like, because again, audio is king in podcasting. So I never focus on YouTube too much. Now, if there's a decline, you're like, all right, we got to figure this out and we'll work through it. But if my audio's solid, I don't, you know, I'm not, there's no red flags.

What's your ambition level in terms of this business? Like, are you, are you, are you thinking like, I think we can get to $10 million in revenue, or is it like, I want to exit for $100 million, I think we can get to $50 million in revenue? Where do you, where's like your not quite North Star, but like your 2, 3, 5-year goal?

Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. Rob Dyrdek's a good buddy and he's such a, I don't know if you got Rob Dyrdek, would be great for you guys to have on.

We've had, we've had him on and he killed it. We, we, we were a, I, I think we were a little bit early in his like public business persona and we had him and he blew us away.

He was amazing. Yeah. I, I've known Rob for years, so I always knew he was just like so violent when it comes to business. He makes so many great decisions and he came into the Sick Boy Studios here in Calabasas, and I was probably, I don't know, 2 or 3 months into it, you know? So you're still trying to figure it out. And he's looking around and he's like, man, this is cool. And he's asking all these questions. They kept going, you know, what's your goal? What's your goal? What's your goal? And finally, I think he was even on there. I'm like, you gotta chill, dude. I was like, um, let me get to cruising altitude and get to Wi-Fi before I start figuring out goals. Like, this thing's just taken off. Once I get to cruising altitude, I'll let you know the goal. So We're kind of getting to cruising altitude. I, I, you know, I don't know what the goal is. I think once I get to the network where I think it could be at, then I would start looking at other options. But the other thing I would say too, when, as far as business, whether it's whiskey, merch, whatever it is, even standup podcasting, I've never done anything for money ever. I do it because I love to do it and it's fun for me and it's what I want to do. And if it makes money, fantastic. Man, that's great. But if it doesn't, all good. It's something I want to do. So hopefully this thing goes great and makes a ton of money and I can retire. When I say retire, do less shows, but with just more money in the bank. But, um, I love doing it. That's why I started it. So, so hopefully, you know, when we do this show in, you know, 3 years or 5 years, I'm talking to you guys and we're celebrating some big moment, but I couldn't tell you what that looks like. And that might be a problem. I mean, you guys are the business guys. Is that a problem that I don't have? Sort of end goal here, even though I don't think you're on.

So I don't think you got to have an end— like what people want, like a 5-year plan. Then you're kind of taught this at a young age. Like you're 18 years old. What you going to major in? I was like, ah, dude, I don't know. I don't know shit about shit yet. Um, and so people are often pushing for that. It's great when you have it. So I always say that if you know the direction you want to go, you know, the outcome is great when you have it. But the reality is most people don't have it right off the jump. And that's totally normal. You just gotta get in motion, get momentum. Cuz as you start going, you'll start navigating, you'll, you'll get a better vantage point. It's like you start climbing the mountain, you're higher up, you could see more and that'll give you a little more. But I do, what I do think helps is a vision for your life. So a vision for like, what, what kind of, what do you wanna do with your life? Your talents are like, so for example, I might not know, oh, I'm trying to hit this revenue target or I'm trying to sell in X years or whatever. But I do usually know, man, it'd be fucking awesome if Dude, what if my job was I literally get to sit down with my friend Sam and we just shoot the shit about business? And what if there were millions of people listening to that? Wouldn't that be cool?

All right. That's literally when I started this podcast. It was, I was walking around with a friend. We had just signed the paperwork to sell my, my first company. And he was like, what do you wanna do next? And in Silicon Valley where I live, there's only one answer. I'm gonna start another company. It's gonna be bigger and badder than the one before that. There's only one socially acceptable answer in Silicon Valley. It's like in Hollywood, if you're not trying to make it, what are you doing here?. And so, but I gave him the honest answer. I go, you know what? I think what Tim Ferriss does is awesome. It seems like that dude gets to wake up, just be curious about shit, run experiments, learn about things. And then he just takes the coolest stuff he learns. He talk, he just gets to talk about it. And a million people have him in, in their ears and he gets to influence a million smart people by sharing little nuggets. I go, that would be awesome. I wanna be in a million people's earballs. And that's just what I kept saying. I wanna be in a million people's earballs. And he was like, dude, I never even heard that word. But like, I, he goes, that's a, like a, that's like a vision for like what would be an awesome life. So I think that sometimes you don't have to have the number, but it is cool to have a, man, that'd be awesome if my life was X or if I was able to do that, do X.

It didn't work out.

It's also less pressure where, you know, I, and you know, I think having that entrepreneur spirit that I was born with from my dad, you guys, it seems like you guys have the same thing too. You'd have to be the success you've reached, you know, I never stop and smell the roses ever. It's always what's next? What are we gonna do next? And what makes this successful? And this next thing, the next thing. And in my sports career and even in comedy, I've never just stopped and, you know, smelled the roses. I'm constantly, constantly pushing, constantly pushing. You know, I don't know if that leads to a happier life. You know, I think sometimes you need to check and go, if you're doing, it's all good, man. If nothing changes. Your life's pretty freaking great, man. If you just stayed here, it's all good. But I wish I was more like that. You know, I, I don't know what else I could get that would make me happy. I guess if, you know, if I'd have to fly commercial, my life would change. That'd be great, you know? But outside that, like, things are good.

Fly private, you mean?

Yeah. Yeah. If I didn't have to fly commercial, I hate flying.

But, well, you— hey, I see you got the nice 911s, you got the cool Ferraris. I mean, you got the toys. Yeah. Private's a nice next step.

Yeah. If you would've told 10-year-old Brendan, you know, some of the stuff he'd be doing, some of the stuff he'd have, he'd be like, holy man, this is insane, dude. Good for you. You made it. But I don't feel like that.

We always talk about on the pod, we say a lot of people ask like, what advice would you give your 21-year-old self or your, your, your 15-year-old self? And we ask the opposite questions. Like, what would our 15-year-old self say to us now if it could look at our life now? Be like, dude, you're unhappy.

Look at your shit, man.

Like, are you joking? You got to barely herd. You get to do this every day. Like, You better be smiling, bro. Like, that's what I— that's what my teenage self would be telling me right now. Uh, and that's almost a good reminder. It's like, like I always say, dogs and kids got it figured out. And, uh, I want to be more like— I want to learn more and be more like my dog and my kids because, oh dude, all day is play. Everything is good. They're happy. They're grateful. Like, we get— we get things screwed up when we get older.

And do you guys have kids?

I got two little ones.

Yeah, I have a 7 and 3-year-old and I don't think I've ever been as happy in my life as my two boys were yesterday. I bought them two, uh, I bought them three lizards. I was like, man, if I could just that level of happiness one time, bearded lizards one time, my life is complete. Yeah. Kids give you a different perspective on things, man. You know, I might be stressed out about work or something. I come home and that stuff goes out the window. You know, there's nothing better than being a dad.

I love that.

On the other side, you're going to have people who want to tear you down, the haters, you know, quote unquote. And, um, and, and, you know, at first they're, they're, they're always a small group, but they're kind of loud. And some people even support them and be like, oh, you're, you're speaking truth to power. You're, you're calling it like it is. You're, you're kind of exposing this person or this, this brand or whatever it is. And you got both. And so I was reading that and then when I knew we had this pod today and I was like, oh dude, he's, he's lived. He's lived that point because, yeah, you know, you have, for people who don't know, you got a big fan base, you got a big anti-fan base, and, uh, the anti-fan base I think is on, on Reddit. I go to this subreddit a bunch, but I'm not like, like, I, it's weird, I like you, but I also find it funny.

Like, they're so clever, these people are kind of dicks, so funny, but they're also funny in the same way.

Like, it's kind of this, this double thing. I'm curious, like, For you, obviously that's like, you know, it's probably funny for me because I'm outside of it. I'm not the person that's the butt of the joke in some of these cases. But, you know, me and Sam got maybe 1/100th of the, like, kind of the, the passion and hate that you, that you have because you've been doing this a long time.

You've, you've made it pretty big.

But when I read our YouTube comments and I see something like that, it stings in the moment. But also there's a lot of times where I'm like They're not wrong. Like, you know, uh, there, there is some truth to where they're, they're being a dick about it, but there's some truth to what they're saying. I, I could see that. I'm curious for you, when you, when you hear about the, the sort of the stuff on the subreddit, or you check it out or whatever, do you have any moments where you're like, all right, they're kind of being mean about it, or they're being a dick about it, but there's some truth to what they're saying?

I mean, yeah, I'm sure. You know, I don't— in all honesty, I don't pay attention to it. I think you— it's a— it's a bad thing whether you pay attention to the negativity or the positivity. Yeah, I think you just got to keep doing your thing. You know, my heroes growing up didn't live this world, you know, so it can't be healthy. I think we'll find over years how it affects the brain, how it affects creatives and businessmen with who do pay attention to that stuff and read the comments and stuff like that. So I don't want to be that sample size. I'm not going to be—

you're not trying to get that digital CTE of reading comments every day.

You were, you were saying how when you moved—

That was a long rant. I apologize.

No, it's good. Where there, oh, you know, someone's got to clip that. Some hater will clip that, hopefully. But somehow, hopefully that hate pushes us forward somehow. But you were talking about moving to LA and how that was like a big change. You basically, like Sean and I both lived in San Francisco when we started internet companies and like having a crew, we were in each other's crew and we had a handful of others where you like succeed together. That's like the greatest thing ever because it's like, it's, it's A, it's fun and B, it's actually useful. Like you get, you piggyback off each other and you, and you motivate one another and you actually like, you invest in each other, whatever. It's like practical. You're in this cool world. It's like. You, Bobby Lee, Theo Von, Chris D'Elia, Andrew Santino, uh, Andrew Schultz is a little bit outside of that, but somewhat inside of that, Joe Rogan. Yeah, you got this like crew and like it doesn't like 10 years ago, you know, there was Rogan, but there weren't really like a lot of like comedy YouTube channels like or podcasts. But right now, like if I go on my YouTube app, like it's basically like a Theo Von or Brendan Schaub clip like constantly or like That the clip of Bobby Lee telling the story about, uh, uh, the Down syndrome thing.

That might be the most viral clip in, uh, comedy podcast history.

That was hilarious.

Yeah.

It's so funny where he talks about getting molested by a Down syndrome guy. It's one of the funniest. I mean, it, it's so like, I can't go on without seeing like a funniest bits from whatever, like, and it's like someone in your crew. What's that like behind the scenes? Like, are you guys, uh, is this like a, um, like Sean and I sometimes when we want to get like popular on X, Y, and Z, we're like, hey, can you like this? Can you share this? Yeah. Or hey, do you wanna come on my thing? You come, like, it's like, it's, it's somewhat organized, somewhat organized.

Or, or just sharing, like, sharing, being like, yo, I'm doing this and it's working. Like, uh, yes. You know, what's that like?

You know what?

You have like a group text when you're like, hey, Theo, like, uh, I've found that like this type of like, cause you guys, and then by the way, I don't know if we told you this. If you go and look at when we first started MFM, My First Million, we just bought the same fucking red sofa lounge chairs that you had because I love it because I would see those on the, I would see those in the thumbnail and I'm like, yeah, all that red pops. Like you make, it makes you wanna click it. And I noticed that you and Theo, particularly you, I bet you probably started it. You have these like pretty eye-catching studios. They're, they're not like particularly fancy, but they're just like, they're just like an eye-catching and you're changing them constantly. And I've noticed Theo does the same thing. He's constantly changing the, the set. Same with Andrew Schultz. Are you guys like sharing all these tactics? Like, uh, when we're doing this, it's working, or like, here's how much we're paying for blank, or like, you guys, let's pump each other around this thing.

Yeah, you know, going back to kind of the, the whole like kind of it's, it was almost like a team, you know, and I, you know, the team captain, all this starts from Joe Rogan.

So before I hit the car, but he doesn't give a shit about any of that, does he? He just does whatever the fuck he wants and sometimes it works.

He does whatever he wants and he's the leader of the pack, but he's also the reason why we embrace each other. And, you know, 5, 6 years ago, 7 years ago at the Comedy Store is the Comedy Rap Pack. And we were the, we were the Rat Pack and we were the guys and every show sold out, our names on the marquee. And Rogan, there was a, there was kind of a, you know, their structure, like we don't tear each other down, we support each other. Um, and I heard Isaiah Thomas say this when he went on, uh, my, uh, boys' podcast, uh, All the Smoke with Matt Barnes. Um, and, uh, Isaiah Thomas said this and it really resonated with me. He was on there. He's talking about Michael Jordan and he goes, clearly I'm not a black man. I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I'm not black.

But it's actually not that clear, by the way.

You could be, you could be. No one knows what I am, dude.

No one knows. If you told me you had a little India, it wouldn't be surprising. It's not that clear actually. Earlier when you said Denver or Buffalo Bills didn't want slow white guys, I was like, yeah, so you're in.

Yeah. So you made the team, right? Yeah. Wait, you're telling me you're not Aaron Hernandez? No, but Oh, so, uh, where was I? Oh, so we're this comedy rap pack.

No, no, you're saying Isaiah Thomas said something.

Yeah, it's, it's important to have one of those like, uh, pay it forward cultures. Cause it's like, uh, that I think Silicon Valley has that too, which, which is there's not really that much gatekeeping. You can go to the most successful, richest guy in Silicon Valley. He'll give you time. It doesn't matter who you are. Um, and if you need a favor, they'll give you a favor with, they'll, they'll give you either advice or money or an intro.. And there's no like pay it back. It's all pay it forward cuz they got helped by the person before them. And correctly that stayed together. Now, uh, you, like you said, with the pandemic, a bunch of people moved outta Silicon Valley. So who knows what will happen now? It takes a little longer in our world to, to sort of see those effects. But I remember when I was in San Francisco, living in San Francisco, kind of on the come up, me and Sam met doing one of these like founder masterminds where we would get dinner for hours and talk like, okay, what are you doing? How's that going? What am I doing? How's that going? How can we help each other out?. And it felt like, um, you know, in Toy Story when, when they go to that arcade and those little, the little minions are, are in the machine and it's like the claw and the claw selects one and takes it away. And that's like, you know, they made it, they, they got the fame, the fortune, they got picked, but the other minions weren't pulling 'em down. They were like pushing 'em up like, congrats brother, go for it. You know, like, you know, you, you made it out. And cuz it's like that in Silicon Valley, you'll know somebody And they're broke for the 4 years, you know 'em, and then they're worth $150 million overnight. And then you're like, oh, the claw picked you and you won.

Yeah.

The claw got you. Yeah. The claw, which is Mark Zuckerberg buying your company happened. Uh, and like, it's same thing in entertainment. Someone hits a breakout point and now they're famous. They're, you know, they made it. And there's a question of like, does it, do you just get left in the dust? Do you resent people when they're happening? Or do you, you realize that the rising tide lifts all boats and you really wanna be in that rising tide. Type of—

Yeah, and just a side note, in San Francisco now, pay it forward, yeah, that's great. You gotta worry about getting stabbed out there. Forget starting an app.

Will your friend watch your back? Literally, like, you got to actually watch each other's back physically.

Just survive the day, you know? Paying it forward is carrying a gun so your buddy doesn't get stabbed in the neck.

Yeah, it's insane. I was gonna ask a slightly different question, but you, I saw a few interviews that were cool. One, it was, uh, Donald Cowboy Cerrone and then Chael Sonnen. And I think actually Michael Bisping said the same thing where they were talking about like in the locker room before they fight and they're like, I think it was Chael. He was like, people think that like we're tough guys and like, ooh, maybe we, we kind of are. But like every single time before a fight, I think my last one should have been my last one. What am I doing? I hate this. And then like Michael Bisping, who's like a cocky dude and like is very confident. He was like, this is the worst thing ever. And then I think Cowboy Cerrone was like, I throw up before every fight. I'm so afraid. And then you had a really cool thing where you're like, I just beat up, uh, Cro Cop. So if you don't listen, if you don't know anything about UFC, Cro Cop is like one of the, the, the GOATs of MMA and he's scary as shit. Like he's like this Croatian dude, but like you think he's like a scary Russian RoboCop type of guy. And you knocked him out. And I remember, like you said, you're like, I knocked him out. And backstage I went and said like, thank you or something. Or like, you know, like good fight. And he like had ice on his head and you're like, what the fuck am I doing? I don't wanna like do this for my life. I don't wanna be 40 or 38 or however old he was when you, when you beat him up. But, uh, what's that like backstage? The 15, 30 minutes before you're about to go fight to the death in your underwear in front of a million people.

Yeah, I think it makes them human. I, you know, I think it would do athletes just so much more in the public eye if, you know, before the Super Bowl or even after the Super Bowl, Tom Brady be like, I'm scared shitless, man. That defense was good. You know, I'm terrified to get hit and throw interceptions and fail. I just think more people would relate to it.

Were there ever any athletes that you know of or hung out with, MMA guys or boxers, where they were built different, where they're like, this person's looking forward to a fight? Or do you think unilaterally it was—

No, there's people where, you know, ignorance is bliss, right? You know, it's like there's guys I trained with and I'd be 2 weeks out from a fight, you know, and the camp's tailoring down. I'm like, oh man, the fight's in 2 weeks, man. Saturday, the guys are like, I know, exciting, right? I'm like, no, dude, this is terrible. But it's just there's certain guys where they live for it. You know, there's guys like the Diaz brothers, even though they said that they hate fighting. I think there's some guy like Cain Velasquez. There's certain guys that just thrive in that. Justin Gaethje, who they just They just love the violence. They just, there's nothing, they were just born warriors, you know? And they're not thinking about businesses or, you know, uh, 10 years down the road or 15 years down the road. It's just, they were meant to do this and God bless 'em. You need people like that. God bless 'em.

Even if you're not into UFC, if you're listening to this, go and look up Justin Gaethje post-fight Michael Chandler on YouTube. He says this amazing thing. He goes, I was born in the wrong era. I should have been a gladiator so I could kill this person in front of all of you because that's what I'm built to to do, and that's what I love. I'm here to fight to the death. And I heard that and I'm like, there's, there's two different types of humans. I'm one and he's the other. Yeah, it's just crazy.

True. And I think, you know, I, I think for me it came to realization because I've known Justin Gaethje since he was in college. I used to go up to University of Northern Colorado and wrestle to get ready for my UFC fight. So I saw Justin at a young age. He's always been like that. And again, when I'd be in the locker rooms or we'd be in the training camps and those guys would talk like that. You know, don't get me wrong, I'm built like a warrior. Like you would look at me— I think that's one of the reasons I get hate from these guys. They think it's okay to treat me the way that they do because, you know, I look like a gladiator on this big dude with tattoos and cauliflower ears. But really push come to shove, I'm the guy behind going through the field like I don't want to be in the front fucking lines, man. That's not what I want to do. You know, so, so I get the treatment of these warriors, but really I'm the guy in the back playing the trombone, holding the flag, you know, making sure I look good.

One of our— Sean and I talked about this after Rose Namajunas, this UFC fighter. She, like, before the fight, you see her saying, I'm the best, I'm the best, I'm the best. And it doesn't matter if you like UFC or not. It makes you cry because you're just like, There's so much, like, you have to talk yourself up to this. And it's just so, like, motivational, inspiring, cute. I don't know what you want to call it, but it's awesome. It's like one of my favorite moments is seeing her say that. And then afterwards, Joe goes, I saw you saying you're the best. What's up with that? And she goes, because I am the best.

And you're like, convincing herself that she's the best. Like, so much self-doubt. And he's just like, no, you're the best. And because— and I'm assuming she worked with a mental coach, which I did too when I was fighting. You work with these high-level mental coaches, they tell you that. You fight the negative thought in your head with a positive. You say it out loud. So that's just for freaking trying to keep the demons at the door. Good. I'm the best. I'm the best. You know what I love about this podcast is usually when people bring up fighting, for me, it's a nightmare. It's a nightmare. Like, especially if I'm doing a show outside, like, whether it's a Comedy Central, if it's a TV show, they talk fighting. Usually they have no clue about UFC. Like, Even you brought up Rose, you brought up Justin Gaethje and the Michael Chandler stuff. Like, thank God you guys have an insight into the UFC, like current UFC world. I'll do some shows and be like, so what's your take on Chuck Liddell and Tank Abbott? You think that's still gonna happen?

Like, dude, they have Alzheimer's, man. They're not in it anymore.

How is Conor McGregor doing?

Yeah, no, man, we're super fans. That's why, uh, that's why it's cool to hang out with you. We've had we've talked, I've talked to Michael Bisping, Ben Askren. We've had Ariel Helwani on.

Your boy.

Which I know you guys had a, you guys had a spat. Uh, we've had, uh, who else? Uh, a bunch of people in that world. It's always fun to talk to you guys because like, even though like the intensity level that you're doing, it's like literally life and death. Starting a business is like a percentage of that, but it's like, I can't do this. I'm freaking out. I don't know how to do this. Like you constantly feel like inferior.

Oh, there's similarities with all of it, with all of it, whether you're a UFC fighter or you're entrepreneur, there's similarities where you bank on yourself and it's on you and the peaks and valleys are insane either way. So there's takeaways from both sides, you know. There's— they definitely overlap. You know, you mentioned Ariel Hawane, right? And I— there's that. And I think it's a fan thing, you know. I've had spats with— over the years, it's just gonna happen. I don't really entertain it, but I have no animosity towards Ariel, you know. I'll do interviews, whether— whatever it is. Oh, so you and Dana don't like each other? No, I have no— I, I don't dislike anybody. You know, I think that might be one of the reasons, too, why the haters, they can't stand it because they want that. They want that drama. They want something to feed off of. They call it feeding the trolls. I just don't entertain that. I think that is, you know, upsets them. It's just not what I do. So when Aaron and I were having our thing, man, I made a mistake. I was on the fight campaign. I said some things I shouldn't have said. He was rightfully so to get upset. So he went on a show and did his thing. All good, man. That's how it goes. You know, I take accountability there. That's on me. But Ariel's the best journalist we have. I listen to his show. You know, I have no issues with Ariel. With Dana, man, if anything, I probably should be giving Dana 10% because when he made that deal with Reebok, it, you know, at the time I was a young man. At the time I took it personal. I thought it was a hit against me. And it put a chip on my— when I say chip, I had an entire Pringles in my shoulders.

And what you're talking about is, uh, before you could put any logo you want, then he made a deal with Reebok and it's just, they are the guys.

Well, dude, you're the man. You, um, I said earlier that we had Rob on and he, like, I knew Rob growing up as a skater and then he came on and he like just surprised us so much. I think his, his video has, uh, hundreds of thousands of views that when we did with him, which is good for us. And, uh, you're kind of in that category where you're, where I'm like, I had good expectations. Because I listen to you a lot, but you're a lot more insightful than I thought. And I thought you were pretty insightful and you're just a good guest. Maybe next time you'll have a better setup instead of just being on your iPhone. Yeah. Here's the thing.

Yeah. So here's the thing about that. So I don't own a computer. My company, like Thick Boi Network has whatever, 12, 15 computers. I'm like the anti, I'm the anti kind of technology guy. I don't like—

that seems good for an internet company owner.

I know, right? Mark, yeah, can you tell I'm going to fail by next year? No.

He says it because, like, he's got a person, you know? He's got people, you know what I'm saying? He's like, I don't have computers, but I have humans.

Yeah, no, I owe you guys. Next time we do this, I'll do it at Athlete Boy Studios. Usually every Wednesday I'm in studio, but today because, um, yesterday I did 3 podcasts in a row, then a 2-hour meeting for this new project I'm doing. So I started at 7:30 AM and then by the time I got done with that meeting, I was, I was home around 5, went and bought my kids lizards, put, fed them dinner, went, put them to bed, then rushed over to The Comedy Store. And I got home at 12:30 last night. So today's my first off day and I don't know how long. And then tomorrow I'm on tour in Atlanta, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, I'm in Atlanta doing shows. So usually I'm always in studio and I have the team set up so it looks professional. So I owe you guys, I owe you guys, but it's all good, man. I, I hate electric cars. I think they're a disaster. I don't like electric cars. I don't like iPhones. I'm about to switch to a flip phone. I just, I don't, I just don't subscribe to it, man. I don't think it's healthy.

Let's add a couple zeros to your net worth and then we'll call it cool. But until then, we're gonna, we're gonna call it—

No, right now I look like a tool.

Right now I look like a tool.

You're a fucking caveman. You're a caveman. But like, maybe, maybe, maybe just add, let's add a few zeros and we'll call you a genius. But until then, you're, you're Neanderthal.

Yeah. Yeah. Until then I'm just this broke guy doing it on an iPhone 7.

Well, dude, thank you for doing this. You're amazing. And we, and we, we appreciate it.

Thanks for coming on.

Yeah. Besides my setup, this got sad fast at the end. Um, all right.

That's the episode.