#37 - Mastering Amazon FBA

I built and sold an Amazon FBA business. For me, no VC money, no employees. I was working full-time. I started with $5,000 and my little Chromebook. Building on the back of Amazon, I mean, it has its risks, we can talk about that, but it also has this huge scale and leverage that you can generate. All right, I got the great first product. This is going to be awesome. Look for enough demand, but not so much competition. I've done all my product research and I sourced I get this logo off of Fiverr. Like, I feel like I already got the right pieces in place. And I get it in, I launch it, and it is a total fail. I got burned so bad the first time. I'm hurting because I do not want to stay in the career of midnight. So I'm feeling like so much is riding on this, and it's just got to work. Once I got a little taste of it, it was like, okay, now it's on. That first year, I did almost 6 figures in revenue. It almost didn't feel real until the deposits hit in. I'm like, oh my God, people are really buying this. The hardest thing to overcome was really my own self-doubt. I mean, it felt like every order I placed, I was like putting my whole net worth on the line. It was crazy. We put the business on and within, I want to say, a week or 10 days, there were 7 full price or higher offers. People can access these types of businesses and with a pretty small bet, like create a life-changing business for themselves. And their families. To carry something from kind of the idea in your head to building it, to scaling it, to selling it, like, you gotta want it. Pretty asymmetrical, like I started with $5,000 and it turns into a 7-figure business.

$5 million is not enough. $10 million. $15 million.

$20 million.

$100 million. It's a half a billion.

$850 million.

One or two people in a bedroom actually are threats to these like giant multi-billion dollar companies because you have creativity and you have nothing to lose. Add another zero to that price, buddy. Add two more zeros.

My first million.

Every week we sit down with self-made millionaires and ask them, how did you do it? I didn't start a podcast. I started my own personal business school, and the teachers are the successful entrepreneurs behind the biggest brands and businesses that you find today. I wanted to know the real stories with all the details, like how did you get your first 100 customers? What did it feel like when shit hit the fan? I ask him, how do you spend your money now that you're rich? And what would you do if you were starting over from scratch again today? If you're like me and you want to own your own business instead of living a 9-to-5 job, this is the podcast for you. The Hustle presents My First Million. Paul, what's up, man? How are you? You flew in today, today, right?

Or last night? Yeah, late last night.

I was excited for this. You You're a listener who is on the show. Is that correct?

Exactly.

That's the new American dream.

I love the show. I reached out to you and here I am.

Yeah, and I liked your story because you did something that I think not a lot of people— well, I'll put it differently. You built an Amazon FBA business. I've seen a lot about FBA, but the people who tell me about FBA are always selling me something for FBA. I hate that. And I like just talking to people who, um, if you, if you're telling me you got rich, then you probably don't need to sell me something for $9.99 type of thing. Exactly. Um, and so, so I'm excited to talk to you because you built a successful Amazon FBA business and, uh, you're here to tell the tale. What made you want to do this?

Well, for me, when I was learning the business, podcasts were everything, like podcasts, Facebook groups, Reddit threads. Um, I feel like I've gotten so much from podcasts, so Hopefully someone will either get a little bit inspired or get educated.

Like you were listening to them or you went on them and that's how you got on? Listening.

No, listening. Listening. Completely. Yeah. There's this guy named Manny Coates who does an Amazon podcast. He never met me. He doesn't know me. I mean, I probably wouldn't have a million-dollar business without him. So there's all these people that have been really influential via podcast that it kind of is fun to come full circle and say like, here's my story on a podcast.

Right. And so, what is your story? Okay. So we're here on My First Million. Um, how did you make your first million? Just let's start with the basics.

So I, I built and sold an Amazon FBA business.

Okay.

And let me, I can give you kind of the, please do the scoop. So FBA, people don't know, is essentially selling on Amazon, right? So that gives you access to two of the most powerful things out there, which is millions of Amazon households, Prime customers, and Amazon's distribution network. So say we want to create a product, Sean, you know, cell phone case, Sean's cell phone case. We put your, your handsome face on there. Yep. Um, we can list it on Amazon. All right, reached millions of Prime households. And when someone buys that product, we're gonna use Amazon's distribution. They're gonna do pick, pack, and ship. We don't have to do a thing, and then we get paid. So the net of reaching all those customers and having their distribution means we can scale up a huge business, a 7-figure business, with just one person. Like, right, for me, no VC money, no employees. I was working full-time. I started with, you know, $5,000 $1,000 and my little Chromebook. Like, so building on the back of Amazon, I mean, it has its risks, we can talk about that, but it also has this huge scale and leverage that you can generate.

I love it. And so, so FBA stands for Fulfilled by Amazon for those who don't know what we're talking about. And, uh, it's similar to other e-commerce businesses, but Amazon is your, in this case, it is the main selling channel for you. Was it the main selling channel?

It was the main selling channel. Yeah.

And then secondly, Amazon is the sort of, uh, back of the house. It is the, the, the sort of pick, pack, and ship, uh, so that you can focus on growing the business and not just the operations. I have to hire staff and get a warehouse and do all these other things in order to fulfill your orders. Is that correct?

100%. Yep, you nailed it.

And so what, um, what were you doing before you started this business?

Yeah, so I was, uh, so I started the business in 2016. I'm about 10 years out of school at that point. I'm kind of reaching this inflection point where I was really not happy in following kind of the, the right path, uh, quote unquote the right path.

What's the right path?

Well, you know, you kind of are, whether it's society or whatever else, you kind of hear this, right? You go to school. Like I went to school, I studied accounting, I got my CPA, worked for, you know, good firms. And the, at the end of it, I just wasn't that engaged or happy. And I got really scared. Like, you know, I'm early 30s, mid-30s now. Is this gonna be my next 5 years, 10? Is this, is this it? Is this all there is? And that scared me so much. Right. And that was really the, what lit the fire of like, There's got to be— I got to build my own life raft out of this.

Because you were winning the normal game, right? Go to school, get a good job, do well in that job. That's a scary feeling when you're like, "I'm winning, but I feel like I'm losing." Yeah, it totally is.

Yeah, it's a really scary— It's sort of like this dissonance in your head. I thought I was doing the right things to win this game. It's not like I was financially that far ahead either because you end up getting a decent car, a nice house. Now, we have a kid recently, so it's like, "Wait a minute. Playing this game and I'm not really getting where I thought I was gonna go. So that's kind of what spurred, like, it's sort of now or never time. We were gonna be having a kid in the near future. And, um, I mean, as you probably know, like having a, having a kid and starting something are, they're hard to do at the same time. So I felt like all this pressure, like I gotta go and I gotta go now and get something going.

And so do you remember what, uh, do you remember the, the sort of the day you made that decision or you, you really felt like, okay, I gotta do this?

And you, um, what were you— I like this question— what were you making before you quit your job, uh, to do this? What was their salary as a CPA? Is that right? Was that what you're doing?

Yeah, transitioned to finance. So I think I want to say I was making, I don't know, $105,000, $110,000, something low.

And living in Minneapolis?

Yeah, it goes pretty far.

It's pretty far.

It's a comfortable life. I don't want to say I'm ungrateful or come off like totally out of touch, but I just— on the inside, at the end of the day when you lay your head on the pillow, I just didn't feel fulfilled. So yeah, it was comfortable, but it just wasn't— something was missing.

Right. Okay. So you do this. By the way, we're not going to be able to say exactly what the product is or exactly the company name for sort of non-disclosure reasons because when you sold the business, you agreed to keep things confidential. Uh, but we'll talk around it and, and I think more importantly than the specifics of what your product was, it's the mechanics, right? It's the mindset you had to go into it. It's how you figured out how to actually build this thing. It's the mechanics about what it means to be, to sell online. Um, and then lastly, sort of the, the, the happy ending, which is, uh, being able to sell this for 7 figures and now, you know, you're, you're anew, you, you've, you sort of achieved the thing you set out to achieve. Um, So talk to me about getting it off the ground. So you decide, I gotta do something. You're inspired by these podcasts. What does that really mean? First, did you start it as a side hustle or did you quit and go full on?

Um, but how much time did you put into that?

Maybe 3 months. 3 months. And I learned—

it was like you got a test run.

And this was one of them. I relate to that.

Yes. Yeah. I got probably 30 of them, you know, at least that in my phone.

So you can turn your brain into a scanning machine for opportunity. You can, if you're wired. If you, if you start thinking that way, you won't even have to try. Your brain will just start seeing everything. Your friend will be telling you about something and you couldn't give less of a shit about what they're telling you except for the fact that you're like, huh, who is that? Is that made in China? How much does that sell for? So do you buy, do you buy multiple of these or just one? You know, you start assessing the business potential of everything.

It's so true. You start deconstructing it like, wow, I bet I could get that out of China for $3. I bet it's, it's, uh, but you just gotta flip the switch cuz then all of a sudden you do that and then you can marry it up to, there's these great tools you can do research on Amazon to kind of see you're looking for.

So let's talk about some of those tools. So you start to get this idea of like, what about this product?

What about this?

What's the first step of research for you when you were like, okay, how do I figure this out? Is this good or bad?

Yeah. So there's a couple of tools and essentially what you're trying to do is look for enough demand but not so much competition, right? So there's sort of this sweet spot, like if you have no demand and you can be the only one standing there, but no one's going to buy it. And the opposite is true. So there's a couple of tools, Helium 10, Jungle Scout. If people want to learn about those, go check them out. They're great tools to learn., you know, what's selling on Amazon. Um, so this product, as the year went on and like, all right, I hear about it from my family, it looks good. Let's, you know, fire another shot here and see what, see what happens. So, um, I run the same play. This again is 2016. I probably put now my $4,000 that I have allocated for, for this into it.

And the $4,000 is going mostly towards the minimum order, is that correct?

Of inventory? Yeah. Yep. So I think I ordered 500 units, uh, at the start, which was the minimum order. Right. Found my supplier on Alibaba.

Right.

I'm up at, you know, 9, 10 PM at night talking on the phone trying to, you know, come off as that I have half a clue what I'm doing.

And you're private labeling a product.

Private labeling a product.

You weren't saying, let's invent something together. You were saying, I want that. Was it— did you even modify it? Or you were like, I want that, but here's my brand logo, colors, etc.?

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No, that was, I was really scared about that at the start because you, the way you pay, you pay 30% to start production and then 70% when production's complete. And I thought, you know, they're gonna just take my money and run. I'll never hear from the WeChat messages. We'll just be unanswered. Um, so honestly, it's, I, you know, there was never anything like that. Like you know, there's always little quirks and little quality things, and, you know, you ask for something and you get something else. Like, that's just part of the nature of the beast. But there was never any big, uh, you know, big problems or issues.

Okay, so you get this product sourced, and we can say it's, uh, uh, what's the sort of generic way we can talk about the, the space you were in?

We can— so there's different categories on Amazon, so we can say it's in the sports and outdoors.

Cool. Sports and outdoors categories. You source this product Um, you, you, you spend about how long to do that? That takes a month? That takes a month and a half?

About a month.

About a month. And, um, how does round 2 go? So round 1 kind of got your ass kicked. What happens in round 2?

So round 2, so I think I get the product up the fall of 2016. Um, and then, you know, come Q4 is the prime time for selling online. It can blow your mind, the amount of sales that can occur. So, so I've got the product on there. My expectations are fairly low because of what happened round one. And it takes off pretty much from the jump. There's some different things you kind of want to do to get the wheel spinning, but that first year, partial year of 2016, did almost six figures in revenue. So for someone going from zero to something, that was like, wow, this is huge. I mean, there's— I'm not sure if you sold on Amazon or Etsy, but there's a seller app and I was just like checking the app, just refreshing that thing like constantly. Right. And it almost didn't feel real until the deposits hit in the bank. I'm like, oh my God, people are really buying this, right? The product. So that's when it was like, this could really be something. And then kind of the rest of the journey was doubling down and trying to just grow it from there.

And so that sounds amazing. And if I'm listening to this, I'm like, oh, hold on. I feel like the magic step of like how the order started coming in, like, what was that? What did you do to get it off the ground in terms of the marketing or acquiring customers?

Like, and what did you notice for the algorithm? What did it favor? Was it reviews? Is there anything else? Return rates? Uh, you know, what, what did it like?

so is that what you did? Did you, did you lower the price initially to get going?

I lowered the price initially. Yeah. Um, and I got some initial reviews. There's all sorts of funny business going on right now with reviews, but yeah, back then, um, you know, I did it the right way. I didn't engage in any of that funny business. I got all these legitimate reviews, and, uh, it just started small. There wasn't that much competition then versus now. A lot of things are— there's still a ton of opportunity in Amazon, and you can grow a huge business today, but it is a little more saturated and competitive now.

So month 1, do you remember what you did month 1? Was that what you were saying, 6 figures, or that was Uh, no, that was the first like 3 months.

Uh, and then it starts to ramp and then it starts to ramp.

Yeah. And it gets into the, the holiday season and it's just—

and how are you feeling? How are you feeling at this time?

I'm like, I'm just pinching myself because I got burned so bad the first time. And like I said, mentally I'm in a place where it's like, uh, I'm just, I'm hurting because I do not wanna stay in the career I'm in. I, it's just not the right fit. So I'm feeling like so much is riding on figure this out, and it's just gotta work. And then once I got a little taste of it, it was like, okay, now it's on.

Did you give yourself a certain amount of time? It's like, all right, I'm gonna give myself 6 months to try this. If I don't do this, I go back and get my job. Or did you just say, I'm doing this, I'm, you know—

Well, I kept my job, right? So I was, I was still at my job. So it was kind of, you know, if I was single in my 20s, maybe I would have been, been riskier. But I was— we were expecting a kid, and you know, I also had a mortgage payment, so it was like, I can't be irresponsible and just dive.

How was it going to work that day when you're like, well, I'm doing, you know, $60 grand a month right now in my, my, my side hustle? Uh, how was that?

Very difficult. Very difficult to focus. Uh, I, I have to say, you know, I was a professional. I hope, I like to think through and through, but I can't lie, like my, uh, you know, my output or what I gave to the company probably wasn't Right. Everything that I could have just because, you know, it was so exciting. Like something else could be hitting here.

And so how long did it go before you did end up going full-time?

So what's a healthy margin on a business? You do a million in sales, uh, for an Amazon FBA business, what's considered good, bad, mediocre, whatever? Like, give us a sense for the margin you should be looking for, what you actually get to keep out of the revenue.

Yeah.

So I, I would target about 25% is good, I would say. Right. Um, PPC costs, advertising costs have been creeping upwards. So I think like there's not a ton of like high sales spots anymore where you're going to be able to pull that margin. Um, but 20-25% is, is pretty realistic.

And you were advertising on Amazon itself?

Absolutely. Yeah, advertising is key on Amazon as well. And you can do, you know, like Google, you can get on Amazon, the most powerful shopping platform in the world, bid on a keyword and be the top result. You know, you're sponsored, but you are at the top of amazon.com for whatever keyword you want to get and reach millions of people. That's, that is Serious power right there.

And so at your— let's say when you were in your stride, what percent of your sales were coming from the sponsored link versus organic?

Say it was probably 70% organic and 30% sponsored.

You know, not really. I think that's the appeal of this business is that the hardest thing to overcome was really my own self-doubt. And at the start, I was really uncertain. Like, I'm just— I'm a fool. I'm going to lose this money. And I was telling my wife about this idea. I'm going to sell stuff on Amazon. I'm going to take $5,000 and I'm going to send it to China and bring product in. And like, she, you know, very loving and trying to be helpful from the start. Saying like, are you, you know, looking at it like a, like she would any business trying to poke holes in it. And I remember saying like, at this point, like, please just be a cheerleader because I'm already kind of hanging by a thread, like on my own belief in it. So just like, tell me I can do it. And then like, once we get this ball rolling, then like, you know, come on in and help me with some of the tactical stuff. But, but no, there was no big thing. And I think the biggest thing is like, it's all so much of stuff is right there on the internet, in Facebook groups, on podcasts, on Reddit. Like if you seek it and you really want to go out there and and do it and actually take action and, and, you know, do more than kind of just look at it and talk about it. Like, it's there if you want to learn it, and it doesn't take— it doesn't take huge capital to build a business like this. I mean, $5,000 is a lot of money, but it's not, you know, gonna sink someone or gonna take someone forever to save that type of money up.

Did you go visit your manufacturer?

I did, yeah, I did.

How many times did you do that, and when did you do that? Early in the process, as you grew, or right?

Yeah, I think to vet So I went, uh, I found the manufacturer on Alibaba, and then as I was finding them and coming out of this business, I actually had a trip booked to go over to the Canton Fair, which, if you don't know the Canton Fair, it's like the world's biggest fair with suppliers over in China. And it was insane. I mean, anything you ever would want to source was over there. So I was going over there thinking, I'm going to find all these products, I'm going to start my empire. And that was really cool, and I loved being over there.

Um, and the Canton Fair is like, I forgot the number, it's like 800 football fields long or something crazy. It's the biggest expo for manufacturers to meet sort of buyers.

Exactly. Yeah. So I went over there. I didn't actually find my supplier there. I kind of had him on the, on the line ahead of time. Um, but it was still a really good educational experience, kind of both to see different suppliers, learn more about the culture, just kind of get like in the, in the headspace of doing business with China. But then I did go visit my manufacturer a couple times and yeah, it was really interesting. I mean, the first night I think he just wanted to mess with me. He took me out and we were eating street food. Like he bought me spiders and crickets and all these things just to just see, you know, what I would do. I probably played right into his hands.

Yeah, there's a game of fuck with the American and he played it.

He played it well. But it also, I felt like going there cements the relationship further. So like you get, you know, maybe a little bit better pricing, a little bit better look at to make sure you get the qualities right. So I think it's such a relationship game with suppliers, like whether they're going to prioritize your shipment versus someone else's and all sorts of things.

Were they supplying for your competitors too?

I believe so, yeah. I mean, that's the case for a lot of, a lot of these suppliers. Like, though, you know, they're putting, uh, outputting all sorts of different products and slapping on different labels. So yeah, they I'm pretty certain they were.

So you went and you cemented the relationship. You spent some time together. Great. So you did that. The other question I had was you talked about the more successful you get, the bigger your orders need to get. So you're always in this cash-poor business, asset-rich game where the business is growing, your asset is growing, but you continually are pouring out money before it comes back. So talk a little bit about how you manage that. Did you do anything with a line of credit or anything like that? Talk about some of the mechanics there.

Yeah. I way underestimated that. You're spot on. That was really a tough— component of it. And you feel really poor even though you're like, "I'm showing these profits on paper, but like the money—" Where is the money? Immediately goes back out of my bank account. So I really just did it based on the profits of the business and drawn them down to— I mean, it felt like every order I placed, I was like putting my whole net worth on the line, which was a scary feeling, but it was kind of necessary to keep fueling the growth of the company. So I didn't— Amazon offers a line line of credit once you get some establishment. The interest rate's pretty high, like, but you can always pull on, on that, or once you've been up and running a while. But for me, I just poured the profits right back in. Gotcha. So let's, let's do the formula.

So what on one side, the inputs— so $5,000 is what you put personal capital into the business, right? Um, time— so you started this sort of late 2016, you sold when?

Uh, early 2019. Early 2019.

And so let's call it 2, 2 and a half years. Roughly, right? Yep. Um, so that's the— that's what came in. Um, what you got out of it. So, um, so you sold this business. What multiple, uh, do these businesses sell for? Are these the types of things that, you know, you could be doing a million bucks and sell for 10, or a million bucks you sell for a million?

And you also mentioned, uh, when we were chatting before we came on here, um, the sort of other risks that are in a business like this with physical inventory, you You're, you're putting a lot of money into inventory. What happens with a bad batch? What happens, you know? So talk a little bit about that, other risks that you saw besides the Amazon sort of competition or algorithm changes. Besides that, what else was there?

Is this container going to fall off the boat?

Is this container going to fall off the boat? And then like my business is done. So, you know, to mitigate that, it felt responsible too. There's just various risks. You have all your eggs in that basket.

How'd you go about selling it? How did that happen?

And you went back and negotiated with all 7 or took one of them, or what'd you do?

Yeah, so there's negotiation. So it's like, I think when I walked into it, it's like, well, whoever names the high number, I'm gonna, you know, that's what I'm gonna take, right? But when you get into it, you realize some people are, uh, like the guys that bought my business. I had a just a good connection with them, and I thought they would really do a good job running the business. Like they knew what they were doing. They were really capable. They seemed honest, straightforward about things. Versus other people were a little bit like me a few years ago. Like they were awesome, but like they were still sitting in their, in their cube somewhere and they never touched e-commerce or Amazon. I was just afraid, like if they inherit this beast and like things, you know, go bad, like I, I don't know what that looks like. So I want to make sure I pass this to someone that—

You thought what? You thought you'd get sued or you, what'd you think would happen? Uh, who cares, right? You sell this. I guess. You didn't need this business before. I'm sorry, this business just came out of nowhere. You, you built it, you sell it.

I don't know. Yeah, maybe it wasn't a rational thought. I, I'm really not sure. I mean, the other piece was the transition too. It's like, uh, if people know e-commerce and Amazon, it makes life so much easier. They just pick it up and run versus if it was someone that never touched this, it would've been a lot of investment. But yeah, part of it probably was just an irrational fear. Like they're gonna, they're gonna jack this thing up and somehow I'm gonna— it's all going to get unwound and it's going to be like this bad joke on me or something.

You know, we've only known each other for— I don't know how long I've been sitting here— 30 minutes maybe. But I like— I really like your personality because A, you're a nice, humble guy and you're a smart guy. But B, I think it's cool to see somebody who's not Mr. Bravado who started a business. I actually think you're quite risk-averse. You just took very practical, pragmatic steps to to like approach this business and get the outcome you wanted without being like sort of hero entrepreneur. Um, and there's a lot of hero entrepreneur stories out there because that's what sells, right? Sure. Somebody taking crazy risk. That's a great story. Right. Um, but what I like about your story, what's a great story to me is that, uh, you were more of a conservative guy. It sounds like to me, uh, you, you know, you're like, you know, I, I got beat up my first time, but you lost only $1,000 in 3 months. It's like, that's nothing. You know? That's the cost of entry for business. But the way you were approaching it, I think, really is very— I think will be very relatable. If I'm listening to this, I'm like, okay, this is not like this guy's from some— cut from some totally different cloth than me. He's not some alien species that has this different no fear gene. It sounds like you're a regular person who did a really awesome business. And I really like that. Cool. Yeah. Thanks for—

I think it's really the truth that people can access these types of businesses and with a pretty small bet, like create a life-changing business for themselves and their families. So I think, you know, I would encourage a lot of, you know, if you feel something inside of you, go for it and try it because you never know what could happen.

And so you sell and you do, uh, is, is it a clean deal, cash in the bank, or you gotta do a seller note and sort of take money down the road?

Yeah, it's mostly a clean deal with a small seller note.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so money hits the bank. Uh, what happens? What, tell me about that day. Uh-huh.

It was, I think it was so going through the process was so stressful that when it hit, I was just like this big relief. And it just felt like, like I had run, like, you know, an ultra marathon from, like, kind of birthing this little business out and then carrying it for a few years. And then the culmination of it, it was just like pure relief. Um, and it felt really good. There was no, like, you know, big part. It was nothing maybe like you'd think when someone sells a business and they see 7 figures drop in their account. It was just like, ah, a big exhale.

And so, so you, um, you see it come in your bank account and what changes for you in your life, right? You said by that point, I assume you had had your child. Yes. And so what changes in your life? What did you change in your lifestyle? Tell us about what that's like.

Yeah, I mean, it really is a blessing. It was and it still is a blessing. Just, you know, wealth in and of itself to me isn't kind of the end game, but it's what the money can enable. And like, my son's 2 and a half now and like the, the freedom and the flexibility and the relationship I have with him, like, it wouldn't have been possible had I still been working, you know, my normal 9 to 5. You have your time. I have, I have the time and I have, I'm just present and like really happy and open to be with him. It's been the best thing that's ever happened to me, having, you know, having our son. So that honestly, just kind of that time and freedom has been the best thing. It's also given me the gift of just being able to sit back and reflect a little bit, like, what do I want do as far as, you know, do next? What type of dad do I want to be? Partner? I think for me, like, I was just on this treadmill, you know, going, going, going. I'm working, I'm traveling, I'm trying to get groceries in the house. You're just going all the time and you don't— like, this allowed a little bit of space to, to just step back and think like, what do I want to do next? What do I want to do with my life? You know? So that was a real blessing. And I think a lot of people don't always have that luxury to do that.

Oh man, I honestly, I think it was such an unremarkable day that I can't— I think my son was home from his school and I feel like we just like watched, you know, Mr. Rogers or something and like hung out. And like when you're hanging out with a little kid, like you, you're going to a whole different headspace. So it wasn't— yeah, it was just a normal thing, which is actually totally fine and how I would have liked it. So it was pretty, pretty chill day.

And you said you started to ask yourself, what do you want to do again? So you had option 1, which a lot of people would take, which is great, I gotta win, I know how to do this now, next time if I did it, I'd be way smarter at it because I know all these new things, and they jump back in and try to, you know, sort of exploit this opportunity again. You didn't do that. Why not? Oh, I, I really wanna—

like, I, I liked this, but I feel like it was sort of a chapter in my life. And like, I did it, I started it, I learned a ton. And I, I don't know if I have the energy to— like, knowing what I know now, like, you gotta really want it to carry something from kind of the idea in your head to building it to scaling it to selling it. Like, you gotta, you gotta want it deep down, like, every single day and keep grinding, keep grinding, keep grinding. And I honestly don't know if I have that in me, right, anymore for an Amazon business. Um, so I'm doing a little bit of Amazon consulting, which I really like because I'm actually like when you do an Amazon business, it's kind of a lonely existence. Like it's, it's just you, you're talking to your suppliers, uh, but you're just kind of rolling solo for most of it. So it's been fun. I've been working with, with, uh, some companies to help them sell on Amazon. That's been pretty cool. And I'm trying to get into the content space as well, kind of leveraging. So like I said, I'm a former CPA and personal finance nerd, uh, like building online businesses. So I think Sam talked about like, hey, if I starting something new, you want a weekend business, go build a content site. These guys are in NerdWallet or wherever they're doing, doing well. So, um, I saw the same thing, I felt the same thing as him. So that's kind of my next thing.

Shout it out, what's the website? Uh, I was reading it this morning on my way.

Yeah, so it's called wealthfam.com. Uh, it's brand new. I'm kind of— I'm still in that sort of fragile state like I was when— like, I haven't— my parents like, what are you building? Does it have a name? Like, no, not yet. Yeah, of course has a name. So it's still kind of in those early days, but the thought is like, I'm a personal finance nerd. I've learned a lot from podcasts and online. So I'm trying to like pull all these things together and put a site out there that people can learn about making money, saving money, financial independence. Like that became a big thing on this journey too. Like, all right, if you really want freedom, you got to, you know, get financial independence and financial freedom. So talking about some of those things. So we'll see. I mean, it's such a crowded space and it's a hard thing to do as far as like stand out and get eyeballs on it. But I'm starting at the same place as I was before at zero. Give it a shot. I really like to write and I hope— we'll see what happens with it. Yeah.

WealthFam.com. So I think you'll get thousands of visits just from saying that. Say it 3 times. WealthFam.com. WealthFam.com. People will listen because I think you touched on the right thing, which is, financial independence. Um, you know, I regret naming this podcast My First Million now because, um, A, you know, the gimmick kind of is interesting at the beginning, but like then you're stuck with the gimmick because it's hard to change your name. Um, but B, you know, the intention is never really about, uh, making millions of dollars. The— what people want is a great life. And, uh, the good thing about what, what money can provide you is that freedom. Freedom, the financial freedom to live life on your terms, whatever those may be. For you, it might be hanging out with your kid. It might be writing. It might be consulting. It might be skiing. I don't know. I don't know what all you like, but it enables the freedom for the lifestyle you want. I think it's really fundamentally what people want and are realizing that job is one option and it can get you to financial freedom, but it usually gets you there when you're 65. And if you're willing, if you're willing to trade 21 years, 21 through 65, then that's a path that's tried and tested. Yeah, but a lot of people are now realizing, especially as the internet opens up all these new opportunities, that you can get financial freedom much faster and in a way maybe that, that's more in line with you and who you are. And once you have that financial freedom, you can play the game differently because every month you don't have to sort of, um, wonder where is the paycheck going to come from. And so, so I like that you're teaching that because I think that is the probably the most important thing people can learn on a— in terms of career or finances is that, that one principle.

Like, so 4% rule helps you figure out what's your number where you would be financially free. Exactly right. And, uh, and it comes from your monthly burn rate, which most people don't even know.

That's an important first step, figure out your burn rate.

And so, uh, so do you track your burn rate every month?

You know, I'm not like hardcore, but you have a rough sense of how it comes out. Yeah, I definitely have a rough sense. So like there was definitely like a number, like, hey, if we get to, you know, this number, like we can live a comfortable life. Like we're not gonna be like, you know, taking month-long vacations to, you know, the most exclusive places in the world, but like we can be very comfortable, live a very nice life. And like that was the goal and we're pretty much at that goal now and it feels like really, really nice.

And so you set a new goal now or what happens?

You know, I don't know. I guess so. 'Cause you got to keep moving forward and doing something. But the new goal is a little bit more like do something that's interesting. I also want to figure out— I feel like in my life, I'm mid-late 30s now and I've done very little to ever give back or do anything positive for the broader world. So somehow, I want to do that because I think that will feel really good. And those are the types of things that kind of stick with you and really matter. I mean, that's been a big thing about being a parent, just caring about someone else more than you care about yourself, like, actually feels selfishly— it feels like really good. It feels great to love someone that much, contribute that much. So I think like there must be some nugget there that there should be some other, other things to do than just keep chasing money, keep chasing money, because I don't know how you end that game if you just continue to try to do that.

Do you, uh, do you know much about Tony Robbins? Have you ever followed him or listened to any of his stuff, read anything?

I listened to him, uh, but I, you know, I'm not, not like— not— I know people that are Yeah.

Yeah, no, I'll have to check out— I'll have to go from a mild skeptic to your level of all in on Tony Robbins.

Yeah, there is the other one, which is, "Oh, I checked it out." And no, that guy is the worst. And that's fine. You can have your range of opinions. But I think there's lots of nuggets of gold in his stuff. Okay. So this has been awesome. Where can people get a hold of you, reach you, read your thoughts? Obviously, wealthfam.com. What else is a good way to follow along?

Yeah. I just created a Twitter account. I think I have 12 followers right now. It's brand new. It's an embarrassingly low follower count, but I'm tweeting about— about, you know, financial independence, building businesses online, Amazon, all those sorts of good topics. Um, it's at Paul underscore D underscore Anderson, right? Anderson's SEN.

Just buy yourself like 1,000 followers just to get off the 12 number. Yeah, you'll get some real followers, but you get to 1,000. All right, go on Fiverr, buy—

I'll go on Fiverr just to get the credibility. Yeah, yeah, you can. Yeah, I'd love to. If you're interested in starting an Amazon business, you're doing it, you have questions, thinking about selling it, you financial independence, anything. Be happy to, you know, converse with you online. Awesome.

Uh, dude, thanks for coming. I, I like this. I like, like, I like this a lot, um, for, for a lot of the reasons I said. I think that if you're listening to this, uh, and you're in the same mindset you were in, um, I'd be pretty inspired to say, yeah, I can do something like that too.

Yeah, thanks a lot, Sean. I think you're gonna be— you're gonna just like me, I had these people that changed, literally changed my life, and they don't know who I am. Like, you're gonna have people that listen to this listen to your podcast and then, you know, 1 year, 2 or 3 years that, you know, look you up, send you a note like, hey man, you changed everything for me. And I'd have to think that's going to feel pretty good when that day happens because I think it is going to happen.

Yeah. My favorite email that I get from listeners is the one that says, um, you don't know, like, you don't know this yet, but I'm going to be on your show someday. And I'm like, hell yeah.

That's the, yeah, that's the goal.

And you came from the audience onto the show. So you were the sort of a good example there. All right, man.

All right. Thanks, Sean. Great. Thank you. See ya. I need a dollar, dollar, dollar. That's what I need. Hey, hey. Well, I need a dollar, dollar, dollar. That's what I need. Hey, hey. Said I need a dollar, dollar, dollar. That's what I need. And if I share with you my story, would you share your dollar with me?