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Guest

John Morgan

American attorney and founder of personal-injury law firm Morgan & Morgan.

1× guest · 15 transcript mentions
Mentions over time
15 total · by year · from the transcripts
’19’20’21’22’23’24’25’26510
14
receipts
3
numbers
1
episodes
1
guest
By type
14
  • Framework4 · 29%
  • Number3 · 21%
  • Idea3 · 21%
  • Story2 · 14%
  • Take1 · 7%
  • Tactic1 · 7%
By speaker
14
  • Guest14 · 100%
By topic
22
  • Side Hustles7 · 32%
  • Marketing / Growth5 · 23%
  • Real Estate2 · 9%
  • Investing2 · 9%
  • Health / Fitness1 · 5%
  • SaaS / Software1 · 5%
  • Pricing1 · 5%
  • Other3 · 14%

Guest appearances

1 episodes
#774Billionaire Lawyer spills his $250M side hustles (pick one)Dec 10, 2025

Key numbers

3 figures

In the moments

14 linked receipts
Number

Upside-down house attractions do $33M EBITDA, zero debt

John Morgan's WonderWorks chain of upside-down interactive attractions (Orlando, Pigeon Forge, Branson) throws off roughly $33 million in EBITDA a year with no debt.

$33M
Annual EBITDA · USD/year
I have zero debt and I'll do like $33 million in EBITDA this year.
EP 774 · 3:44 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 3:44
mfmindex.com№ 0774-224
Idea

An attraction built on America's obsession with crime

After a sold-out Alcatraz tour, Morgan realized America is endlessly fascinated by crime and punishment and built Alcatraz East, a crime-and-punishment museum in Pigeon Forge that 'prints money.'

And my epiphany is America is fascinated with crime and punishment like nothing else. TV shows, movies, books, Netflix, all of it. And I was in the attraction business anyway. I said, you know, What about an attraction dedicated to the history of crime and punishment? And so I built an attraction that's in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, called Alcatraz East.

Steal thisFind a cultural obsession with proven mass demand (true crime) and build a physical, screen-free attraction around it.

EP 774 · 6:39 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 6:39
mfmindex.com№ 0774-399
Number

Crime museum nets $5M a year

Alcatraz East, the crime-and-punishment attraction in Pigeon Forge, makes $5 million a year net profit.

$5M
Annual net profit · USD/year
It makes $5 million a year, net-net, in profit.
EP 774 · 8:11 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 8:11
mfmindex.com№ 0774-491
Story

Investors took the loss; Morgan and his wife went all-in solo

When Morgan's failing DC crime museum needed to relocate, every original investor refused to re-up and took their loss; his wife said 'let's do it ourselves,' he put in $8M of new money, and got it all back in a year and a half.

And so I sent a letter to all my investors saying, look, I'm going to move it from here to there and you'll be part of it. And everything was, you know, and not one person took me up on it. Not one person. They all said, you know, fuck it, you know, we're taking our loss. And then my wife, I said, what do you think? She goes, let's do it ourselves. And, you know, and so my new money was like $8 million. New money, and, uh, I got it back in a year and a half.
EP 774 · 10:42 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 10:42
mfmindex.com№ 0774-642
Take

Processed food is the new tobacco

Morgan, who has tried many cases against Big Tobacco, argues cigarette makers are in the business of premeditated murder (their docs call new smokers 'replacement smokers'), and notes those same companies now own food brands.

They're in the business of premeditated murder. And so I don't feel bad at all when that's my enemy. I don't feel bad at all when I'm trying to get compensation for people who got hooked and addicted by a very evil company. And by the way, today those same companies now own our food companies. Yeah, it's crazy. And processed food is the new tobacco.
EP 774 · 24:17 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 24:17
mfmindex.com№ 0774-1457
Framework

Sell the sizzle, not the steak

Inspired by P.T. Barnum and Walt Disney, Morgan builds attractions around the spectacle itself: people will pay just to get behind the curtain, so he made the upside-down WonderWorks building the draw, not just what's inside.

you've heard the slogan, sell the sizzle, not the steak. Well, there's a lot to that. So when I was building WonderWorks, I was thinking, sell the sizzle, not the steak. People will pay just to get behind the curtain like they did with P.T. Barnum. They'll get— they'll pay to get behind the curtain just to see the human pincushion.

Steal thisLead with spectacle: make the wrapper (building, story, reveal) something people will pay to see on its own.

EP 774 · 31:53 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 31:53
mfmindex.com№ 0774-1913
Framework

What would Google do? Build the 'Google law firm'

Morgan's guiding vision was 'what if Google was a law firm?' — meaning be everywhere for everybody, want ALL the cases (not some), keep the best in-house and refer the rest out partner-style like Uber, prioritizing transparency and automation.

everything we're going to do, we're going to ask what Google would do. And here's what Google would do if it was a law firm. Google would be everywhere for everybody, and Google wouldn't want some cases, they'd want all the cases. And if they didn't handle their cases in-house, they would refer them out. They would partner with a firm like Uber.

Steal thisPick a category-defining company and ask 'what would they do in my industry?' to set your strategy.

EP 774 · 37:27 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 37:27
mfmindex.com№ 0774-2247
Tactic

Bundle $100+ of à la carte rides into one cheap ticket

Morgan prices WonderWorks at ~$26 but packs in 4-5 experiences (virtual coasters, ropes course, laser tag) that would each cost $15-20 standalone — so a family of four spends ~$100 and feels they got incredible value.

There's probably 5 items inside of a WonderWorks that would cost $100 by each by themselves. But here, a family of 4 comes in for $100 and they leave, you know, with a huge grin on themselves, sweating from all the activities. And the value is incredible.

Steal thisBundle several individually-priced experiences into one all-you-can-do ticket so the perceived value dwarfs the price.

EP 774 · 50:21 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 50:21
mfmindex.com№ 0774-3021
Idea

Santa's Chocolate Factory: Willy Wonka without the IP fee

Morgan's next attraction is Santa's Chocolate Factory — a year-round Christmas chocolate complex that uses Santa Claus (free, no IP licensing) instead of Willy Wonka, with an hourly 'clock strikes midnight' Bellagio-style show that brings the store to life.

So I thought, well, Willy Wonka, you got to pay IP for Willy Wonka, but you don't have to pay IP for Santa Claus. So I said, what about Santa's Chocolate Factory? Santa's living there. This is Santa's house. There's a big chocolate factory, there's ice cream, this— the booths are made out of sleighs.

Steal thisBuild your themed concept around public-domain characters (Santa, fairy tales) to skip licensing fees entirely.

EP 774 · 52:11 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 52:11
mfmindex.com№ 0774-3131
Idea

Don't tear down the dead mall — make it the attraction

Applying first-principles thinking, Morgan is bypassing the default 'demolish a dying mall' move: he bought a failing Myrtle Beach mall cheap and will repurpose it into 'the Gallery' — an LED/illusion museum with a zip line and ropes courses that people visit just to walk through.

So I'm going to take this mall and I'm going to repurpose it and I'm going to call it the Gallery. And it's going to be— it's going to be— the mall is going to be a museum. You're going to go to the mall just like you're going to go to Santa's Chocolate Factory. You're going to go just to see the inside of the mall.

Steal thisQuestion the default exit for a distressed asset; repurposing it as an experience can beat demolition.

EP 774 · 58:25 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 58:25
mfmindex.com№ 0774-3505
Framework

Bullets before bombs: pilot one city before you go big

Morgan tests new law-firm markets cheaply first — a few ads and a few lawyers (the bullets) — and only pours in heavy capital (the bombs) once he sees it catching on, rather than launching multiple locations at once.

And I also believe bullets before bombs. You got to really test things a little bit. A lot of people try to, you know, build two at once or three at once. You got to build that first one, that first pilot, and really get it down. And that's how I do the law firms before I really go big in a city. I come in, spend some money with ads, hire a few lawyers, the bullets. And then when I feel it catching on, then I bring the bombs.

Steal thisFire cheap 'bullets' (small tests) to find what works before firing expensive 'bombs' (big bets).

EP 774 · 1:02:37 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 1:02:37
mfmindex.com№ 0774-3757
Number

Referral cases run 85-90% margins vs 30-35% in-house

Morgan's internal law business runs roughly 30-35% margins, but the cases he refers out through his 'Google law firm' network earn 85-90% margins — and that referral business keeps growing with his national footprint.

$90
Margin on referred-out cases · percent
my margins in my business about 30-35%, but my margins on my referrals is 85-90%, and that business is getting bigger and bigger and bigger as my national footprint gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
EP 774 · 1:04:21 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 1:04:21
mfmindex.com№ 0774-3861
Framework

Love them, feed them, focus: building the greatest show on earth

Morgan runs his firm like a circus where the danger is the draw: to keep the act alive he uses three rules — love your people, feed them (share the profits via partnership stakes), and focus (stay sharp on the high wire).

So in building this firm, I got 3 rules: love them, feed them, focus. And then you can build the greatest show on Earth.

Steal thisRetain top operators by giving them real ownership stakes — love them, feed them, focus.

EP 774 · 1:09:30 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 1:09:30
mfmindex.com№ 0774-4170
Story

He raised Florida's minimum wage with his own money

Morgan personally funded two Florida constitutional amendments — legalizing medical marijuana (to help his injured brother) and raising the state minimum wage from $8 to $15 an hour — despite being told he was a nobody who would never pull it off.

So what I did with my own money here in Florida is I ran a constitutional amendment to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. And everybody told me again, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're nobody. That's never going to happen. Well, it did happen. And so I raised the minimum wage in Florida to $15 from $8 to $15 an hour.
EP 774 · 1:12:50 · JOHN MORGAN
Read at 1:12:50
mfmindex.com№ 0774-4370