The Kanye Episode
Dude, it just comes with the territory. That's what happens when you're creative, man. You're going to be crazy. You got to accept the craziness. Do you want to talk about Kanye?
I do want to talk about Kanye.
Yeah. So I only watched the first episode because I have this rule. I've got two rules. The first rule is if there's a movie that involves animals as the protagonist, protagonist.
I don't know where you're going with this.
I don't watch it.
I don't watch Lion King.
I don't watch— the animals always die, so I don't watch it. I have a rule. I don't want— like, if there's a war movie and it's set in a period where they had horses, like Braveheart or The Patriot, and the horses die in the war, I don't watch it. I just— it's too much for me. I don't like seeing horses die. I don't like seeing the lion get trampled. I don't watch that shit. The second thing is if it's generally either scary or sad, I don't watch that either. I'm not paying money to get freaked out, right? I'm paying money to be happy. I feel good. Yeah, like my life sucks sometimes anyway. I don't need to like— I want to pay money to like make it not suck. So I knew that in episode 2, that was when his mom died. So I was like, nope, I'm not gonna watch that. So I only watched episode 1.
Uh, but by the way, I've watched 2 episodes. His mom doesn't die yet, uh, that, that part, uh, They made it.
I thought they made it. They were playing the song Hey Mama, like, over the preview.
So you haven't seen any of the scenes with his mom? Because those are the best scenes.
Well, yeah, where she's like, he's like, I bought a— she's like, uh, you don't own a house, but you bought this chain. And she goes, okay, well, you gotta like the chain, Kanye.
It's nice. This is nice.
Yeah, she was very supportive of him.
Yeah, so, um, dude, okay, so let's talk about the mom. All right, so this Kanye documentary is frankly great, and I'm kind of mad more friends didn't tell me you gotta watch this. Like I could see why maybe some people don't like it, but this is like, this is up my alley. This is, this is my dude.
Did you see the idea about how they're basically— it was just a guy, dude, because you ask yourself, why is this—
where's this footage from?
Why is this guy just walking around? Like, he's got a cam— it's like a camcorder on his shoulder. Why is this guy with Kanye when he's like on the street? And basically this guy was like, I saw, um, I forget the movie that he saw. It was called like, uh, there's a movie where Yeah, Hoop Dreams. It follows 4 young, like, high schooler kids or 8th grade kids. He's like, let's see if they're going to make it to the NBA. And he's like, I was inspired by that. And I thought Kanye was going to be famous. And so I just decided to follow him around. And this was before YouTube was around. So it was weird that a guy was with like a shoulder camcorder.
Totally weird. What, what luck for all of us that that guy— so shout out to Cudi, the guy who did it. Um, he basically— and by the way, I think they explained this more later. I haven't seen the whole thing, so I might not know something that's like said in the documentary, but like, I've only watched the first couple of parts. So he basically sees Kanye. He's like, this guy's cool. And then drops everything and is like, I'm going to film this guy. Like, I'm going to film this random guy from Chicago who wears a retainer and is trying to be a rapper. He's like a cool producer, but like, you know, who knows, right? Like, you know, most people don't make it. As Kanye says in the documentary, he goes, yeah, where I grew up, There's a whole bunch of guys who are, who are, who are just finna get signed. And guess what? They're still finna get signed. They're just, they're always finna get signed. And so like, you know, that seemed like the, the most likely path, but like, that's amazing. So the, this documentary's amazing because he's got footage from before everything when he, when he is, when he is got nothing, when nobody believes in him and he's like, you know, trying to make it. And because, because of that, he's got all this footage and other people also view it as harmless. It's like, oh. I don't know, why is this guy got a camera? What are you doing with a camera out? It's like, I'm filming a documentary for Kanye. All right, that's weird. All right, but I guess come on in. Like, you know, who knows? And so you see Jay-Z, you see Pharrell, you see all these like legends in the game early on because— and in the studio because they just have this footage. It's amazing.
It was awesome. I love this documentary. It was cool that he looked up to a couple guys like Mos Def and Common And now those folks aren't even in the same stratosphere as what he is.
Exactly. He, he does, and he surpassed them.
They asked for his autograph, and he would— yeah, and they were like, um, all right, fine, Kanye, fine, I'll, I'll, I'll come, I'll come with you to this thing, right? And it was awesome. And it's easy to say, like, when I watch it now, I'm like, oh, this is so obvious, this guy like has the it factor. And of course that's easy, but there was a few— there was one scene where he was in a record label like reception room, I think. Yeah. And there was this woman just standing there and he was like, hey, can I talk to whoever? And she kind of ignored him. And then he just started rapping. He's like, well, let me show you my rap. And he plays, um, he plays All Falls Down, right?
I think.
And which is like the hit of hits. And he's rapping and she's like, get cameras up for a minute. And then eventually she just like starts making phone calls and she's like working. And then she's like, excuse me, like has to walk by because there's someone at the door. And he's playing All Falls Down before it like became a thing. And, uh, it, it made me think of two things. One, that's crazy that he kept getting after it. And two, even though All Falls Down is a total hit, I understand how if you heard it, it was just some crazy guy, you'd be like, oh, that's stupid. Yeah. And it really makes me respect people, whether it's people who invest money in a product or people who find an artist or find art or a trend, people who can spot something and be like, I think that's it. And if we position it in the market this way, this is gonna be a home run. And it really shows you how how hard that is because that woman— and there was like 3 different ladies walking around the room— were 100% fans of that song. They were like, in the dark, they were like, looked like young people that were in the music industry and they were working their way up. They 100% were about that song when it came out, but then it, it didn't click. And that is what I try to imagine. I'm like, what, what is my All Falls Down today? Did I skip over anything today? And I found myself asking that after I saw that documentary.
100%, because you just see people who are writing them off, people who are just too busy doing their work that they missed this absolute goldmine. That's like, literally, he's putting it in your face saying, please, please, like, check me out. Right? And like, and it's easy, like, when something's popular, it's easy to appreciate its greatness. When something is just some random guy in your way, it really takes someone special to spot that talent. And it made me want to be that guy, right? It made, it made me want to be that parent. So like, I wrote down a bunch of notes, which is weird because like, who writes notes while documentary? But I was like, there were things that stood out to me that were like real life lessons or just amazing moments that were in this. So I'll give you one. He's rapping with his mom. His mom, his mom was an English teacher and she's like, what's that one you used to say? Like, I was at the playground and then they said, boys came around and then bop. And she's like doing it and he does it and she's like, oh, I love that one, Kanye. Like an audience of one. It's like all he really had at that point was one fan. It's like his mom. And she's like, that's $1 million right there. She goes, I always used to tell you that, right? It's that's $1 million right there. And he laughs. He goes, ain't got $1 million yet. And like, now he's a billionaire, right? And so it's like, and she's like, no, I'm telling you, that's $1 million. And then he tells her some good news. He's like, mom, uh, MTV is going to film me for their, like, you heard it here first thing for emerging artists, like unknown artists. Can you believe they're going to film a documentary? Mom, can you believe that? And she goes, I can believe it the way you are. She goes, you writing tracks, it's like watching Michael Jordan shooting free throws. And then she goes, oh my God. And then she goes, she goes, you know, you, you work so hard. You kept going, you keep going up. It's bound to pay off. So yeah, I believe that Kanye, for people like you, you're special Kanye. And like, and she, and she's not saying it. There's no difference when you say something fake.
By the way, you're doing a really good job with this. Yeah, this is good. I, you've got me bought in. This is really good.
And so, So she was, you know, there's a difference when somebody says something like, oh, you're great, versus like when somebody genuinely believes in you and they're not just trying to pump you up and they just have a quiet confidence about them. Like, she wasn't going overboard and wasn't saying like, don't worry, you're gonna make it. She was just saying like, of course I believe it. Like, yeah, I'm not surprised.
And she wasn't critical. So he comes back and she goes, Kanye, when you gonna buy a house? And she, he goes, ah, I don't know yet, but check this out. And he pulls out this chain. I don't know what was on it. But he was like, I could have bought a house, but I bought this instead. And she goes, well, that's— it's all right. It's pretty nice.
Good job. I like that. Kanye. Yeah, yeah. And she's like, again, so supportive and such a believer. And that's like a, you know, a thing that moms do. But it's just like, you know, that's mad respect on that. And, and so most moms don't do that, by the way.
I don't think most moms do that.
I feel like, you know, you know, a lot of people like, dude, I have the best mom. And it's like, well, you know, yeah, yeah, trust me, there's a lot.
Well, I think that there's a lot of shitty parents out there. And then I think that most parents are just— that most parents are just— are okay. It's just like a distribution, just like everything else. And she was very special and a single mom, too, right? No dad.
Single mom. And, you know, he opened up her fridge and there's like literally like—
like wine and milk.
There's a quart of milk and a quart of rosé or something like that. Why? Zinfandel. And then like he's— and he uses that like in his song. Later or whatever. And so there's a couple other things. So, so he goes, um, uh, he— so I'm just gonna— can I read you some of these notes?
I just blew them away.
So there's one scene where he's, he's, um— oh no, she goes— she's trying to warn him. And so she goes, you have this confidence that Kanye, like, um, you know, but I want you to make sure you stay humble. And, and like, obviously that's, you know, been a challenge for Kanye over time as he's like, I am Jesus now. And so And she's like, remember, a giant looks in the mirror and sees nothing. And like, I still, to this point, I don't know what that meant. And Kanye clearly also didn't know what that meant in the moment. And then she tries to explain. She goes, she goes, don't, she goes, don't make yourself less of a star. A star's gonna look like a star. You can't be a star and then say, I'm not a star. You can't have, you got, she goes, you gotta have some oomph about you. And I just love that. Like, that's a, there's a, that's a phrase to live by. It's like, I have some oomph about me. Like, that can mean anything. In any situation and it's the right thing. And then she goes, she goes, don't just go to the mirror and say, no, I'm not all that. Thank you very much. I'm, I'm not all that. I'm not a star. Like, yeah, you be a star, but be humble at the same time. And she goes, you, and he goes, you're saying I don't do a good job of that? She goes, no, you do a good job at that, but you gotta make sure you keep, keep doing a good job of that. And like, those are like, you know, kind of like that's a seed that's been planted, right? And so, gosh, he's great. So there's that one. Then there was like all these moments where All right, the importance of identity, right? So he says from the beat— so at the time he's known as a great producer. He produces the beats that Jay-Z uses on his big Blueprint album, and people know him as that. Everyone loves him as a producer. Everybody wants him as a producer, but he wants to be a rapper.
Yeah, he was upset about that.
He's upset. And so he goes into this one—
he's in the hallway at the record label, which, which by the way, a lot of people forget. Do you realize how much he produced before he actually got famous? No, that's kind of crazy. Artist.. It's pretty crazy. Like the big one was H to the Izzo, right? And there was like, there's like dozens more. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but there was dozens more where you like, wait, you did that? And he did it before he had his own thing.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he was great at it. And then he's like, he talks about, he's like, yeah, people want my beats. They say, oh, oh, I want, oh, can I get one? Can I get, I need a beat. Give me a beat. He's like, and then they hear my song. They're like, yo, I hadn't heard this. Where'd you get this? He goes, that's my shit. I use that for me. And he's like, he's like trying to like, on one hand he needs to sell beats to pay for life, but every time he does, it's a step away from where he wants to be in a way, like to be a rapper. And so he's in this hallway and this guy's trying to hype him up because he's like, oh, you got the documentary crew? So he puts his arm around him. It's like the managing director at Rockefeller Records. And he's like, you know, this right here, Kanye West, he's the best rapper producer in the game. Best rapper producer in the game, period. And then Kanye's like, kind of like upset. And he's like, what? And he goes, why you gotta say that, man? That's like saying I'm the best kid rapper in the game. He's like, what, man? I said you're the best rapper producer in the game. He goes, I'm just a rapper. If I'm the 50th best rapper, just say he's the 50th best rapper. Don't call me the best rapper producer in the game. That's whack. All them are whack. I'm not that. I'm a rapper. And like, think about what's going on in that moment, right? He's like fighting to get a record deal where most people are in desperation mode. Like they'll take what they can get. And instead he's got this identity and the whole world is trying to pull him to just be a producer. 'Cause that's what's in it for them. Like that's proven and that helps, you know, helps them make hits. And you know, why aren't you just happy? Pat you on your head and say you're a great producer. And he had this identity in his head so strong that I think 99 people out of 100 in his position would just become a producer because the whole world was pulling him in that direction. And it was a faster, clearer path to success. And the money was there and the success was there, and he didn't have to grind as hard as he did to try to prove himself as a rapper. But he had it in his head, no, I'm a rapper. And if I'm the 50th best rapper, I'd rather be the 50th best rapper than the best rapper producer. And I just, it was such an example to me of like, people will stay consistent with their identity. And so you kind of gotta ask yourself like, what is my identity? Like if I said, Sam, are you, what's your job, Sam? What do you do?
Uh, right now my job is I do podcasts.
If I just say, wait, what? Like, who are you? What do you do for work? What do you do for a living?
I, I'm a business person.
Okay. You're a business person. So if all of a sudden I, it doesn't matter what HubSpot offers you, right? Like, okay, you're vesting out your deal. You, you, that's great. But let's say any company comes to you and say, Sam, we'd like to make you the vice president of marketing operations at biggest company in the world. And you're gonna get this and that. You're not gonna do it because it's not consistent with your identity. You're like, I'm, I'm a business person.
I'm an entrepreneur. I'm an entrepreneur.
Yeah. So entrepreneur. I can't be an employee if I'm an entrepreneur. There's just not, they're two separate things. And like in the same way, you know, you're not gonna do heroin cuz you're not, you're somebody who doesn't do heroin. You don't even have to weigh the pros and cons of it. It's just really not a discussion for you. It's not part of who you are. It's not like I'm trying not to do it. It's no, I just, I don't do that. I do do this and I don't do that. And so those lines you draw for yourself are so important on identity.
And I would argue, so there's this book called 48 Laws of Power. Have you read it?
No, but I've heard of it.
All right. It's awesome. So he's got this one chapter where he says you always have to reinvent yourself. And he gives a bunch of examples about that. And the reason why you wanna reinvent yourself is the person who you can't peg down typically can become the most powerful because there's something about changing yourself that it does a couple things. First, this whole act as if thing, it's real. So if you like act like you're gonna be an expert artist or something and you work harder, you can eventually become that, but you kind of gotta act as if. Second, it kind of reinforces habits. So you see like, no, I'm a healthy person, therefore I don't do unhealthy things. And third, it gives you this aura of mystery and people who have mystery surrounding them typically are powerful. Right. And, uh, and, and there's a ton of good examples about this, like a really interesting and easy one because she does it so clearly is Lady Gaga. So like oftentimes she'll reinvent herself. So at first she was this like kind of just normal, like white lady playing on the piano. If you see her, like when she's a little bit younger, then she becomes like this weirdo person where she's she like puts meat on her body. Then she transforms and becomes— she starts playing jazz with Tony Bennett. You're like, what the heck? Lady Gaga's doing that? What the hell is that? Now she's like, just got done doing some acting and she was a great actor. So like constantly reinventing themselves. I think Arnold Schwarzenegger has done a really good job at that. We just can't— yeah, you just— you got to reinvent yourself consistently. And Kanye has done that where he's actually changed himself. And I think inventing— reinventing yourself You actually need to make the decision. You gotta be like, I am this now.
I am this. Exactly.
That's something.
And then you gotta choose that identity.
And after a while then you could be like, all right, great. I, that season was, this season had a beginning and a middle and now it's come to the end. What's the next season of me? And you can actually pick and choose what those inventions are. And I, when I read that when I was a little bit younger, that kind of changed my perspective on things.
When I went to the Tony Robbins event, it was a perfect example of what you're talking about. So he tells the story. He's like, you know, he's like, yeah, there was this kid I was working with, or this kid I met, and kid was overweight and he wanted to be fit. But he was talking about, oh, you know, it's hard. I'm working so hard, I don't have time to exercise, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, he wanted to be in a relationship. And we saw a woman, beautiful woman. I said, well, go talk to her then. And he didn't want to go talk to her. He said, well, why would she want a guy like me? I'm too young. She looks older than me. You know, I don't have a good job. She probably wants a guy who, you know, who's got, you know, something going for him. Look at my clothes. I don't look good. So he didn't want to go talk to her. And so he, he talks about all these aspects of his life, his health, his relationship, his career. It's like, what do you want to, you're, you're working as a busboy right now at a restaurant. What do you want to be going and doing? I, I want to be over there. I wanna run that dealership over there. You know? All right, so why don't you go apply for it? Well, why would that hurt me? I got no college education. Right? Like coming up with all the reasons why, like labeling himself all these identities that he is not, right? I'm overweight, no college education, too young, too dumb, too fat, too whatever. Right? And people do this all the time. And so he's like, he draw— he basically talks about the turning point for this kid. He's like, he drew a line and he said, um, no experience. Like, no experience? What are you talking about? Yeah, no experience. Yeah, yeah, I don't have— I'm not stuck in all the old ways like all those other fuckers, right? Like, I got fresh ideas. I got the energy of a young stallion. I'm not like some 50-year-old guy who, you know, is dragging into work every day. Yeah, I got no experience. I got the best experience. No experience, right? Or like, Why would this woman want to be with me? Me? Because I got that, you know, and he just turns it around. Like, what's the truth? Is the truth that you have no experience or the truth that you have fresh ideas and young energy and you'll, you'll hustle harder than anybody else to prove, to prove yourself because you have— this is your, your track record, right? And so he does that for each one of the things. And then it's like, oh, you know, at the end it's sort of like, you know, that kid's me. And he shows a picture of himself before and where he was living and how he was working and how he turned himself around. That's good. And he says in this thing, he goes, You know, right now you guys see me on stage and I got this, I have, I have energy and confidence and I have all these, like this insight and wisdom or all these things that people praise me for. He goes, what people don't realize is I created this Tony Robbins motherfucker. I created him. And, uh, like, and I just thought that was so powerful of a way of thinking. Like you can create that, that thing you want to be, that, that the ideal version of you, you get to create that. And the people who've done it, they just created it. They chose that identity and then they just lived up to that day by day. And like, you know, there's a, the Kanye is like a, you know, a great example of, of like literally speaking it into existence. He says a ton of stuff on there. Like people are going to know me without my last name. It'll just be Kanye at some point.
And he said, and I go ahead.
No, no, go for it.
When I was watching that, it also reminded me of this other thing. And here's a really small example. So you, Sean, are your, your, I don't know what you are. I don't. Create— creative is one word, but that's not the most effective word. I would say you're whatever it requires to be a good, like, storyteller and podcast host. That's what you are. So it's like a mixture of creativity, performing, and a bunch of other stuff. And what I've come to accept is, like, so I always joke that Sean is always, like, usually 2 minutes late. He's usually always 2 minutes late to stuff. And at first that made me angry. It doesn't make me angry anymore now, because what I know is in order to be good, in order for you, Sean, to be Sean and be good at these things, that means by nature you're gonna be the opposite of good at these other things. Right. Like, that's just what it, that's just what it comes with. Like, so like if you want someone like, so it's like, well, you know, you can't be this amazing athlete and have time to do all these other things. Like in order to be an amazing athlete, you gotta train all the time. So like, I just accept that like, well, I want him to be good at this. Therefore I accept that maybe sometimes I'll just, he'll just be 2 minutes late. And when Kanye acts like a crazy person online and he says all this crazy shit about Kim Kardashian and he types in all caps on Twitter and shit, people are like, this guy's crazy. Like, what's he doing? And I'm like, well, that's what we need. Being crazy is good. Like, that's why we got all this gold. And I love those crazy people. And you can— and so what I've learned is like, in order to be great, you're going to be messed up in some other, in some other categories.
The, the MrBeast thing I was talking about at the beginning, he said something just like this. He goes, Joe Rogan asked, like, you know, what was it like? You know, what did your friends think or whatever? He goes, he's like, at first my friends just thought it was weird. Like nobody— that wasn't a popular thing to make videos. And then they just got sick of it because all I ever wanted to talk about was making YouTube videos. They would ask me about other stuff or try to talk to me about other stuff. I just didn't have any interest in anything else. I was just obsessed with making great videos and it's all I wanted to think about. And I remember there's an interview with Conor McGregor. He goes on BBC. It's like one of the bigger, like, it's like not just like an MMA guy covering Conor asking about MMA. It was like BBC World or something like that was going to interview. And they asked him some question or there was like some small talk, you know, about like, about like the news or the game. And he's like, oh yeah, you know, both teams play hard. He just says something generic. And then the camera cuts and his documentary crew's filming because I have no clue who those teams are. He's like, I don't follow any. I don't think I don't follow sport. I don't follow news. He goes, um, he goes, I don't know anything about anything and I don't want to know anything about anything. I just am obsessed with my, with my craft. I have lost my mind to my craft. And, um, I've seen that. And, and so, you know, it's like this kind of inspiring thing that you see as like a common, what are the common denominators of greatness? You, I wouldn't say you have to do anything because there's many ways to win, but these, these things do show up often, right? They sort of rhyme with success is like, these, this obsession, this sort of singular obsession with something or identity, seeing yourself as becoming something, even when the rest of the world doesn't see it. Having that one believer like your mom, right? Like, so like if I was gonna say like the lessons from Kanye, which I think is what this episode's turning into, it's like, you know, number one is like, you know, the power of that one believer, like his mom. Number two is like the power of identity. Number three is, um, is like It, it, so he has this moment where he goes, uh, some, somebody said something. They go, um, they go, you know, do you think it's harder for you because you're from Chicago and because you have this background as a producer so people don't take you seriously as a rapper? And he goes, he just goes, he goes, the way I feel is anything that anybody ever tells me is a disadvantage, I'm gonna make it my advantage. And then he basically, if you watch the documentary, that's exactly what he's doing. He's like, Okay, I'm pigeonholed as a producer. Well, I'm gonna make the dopest beats for myself and I'm gonna use my beats as currency. So he's like, yeah, I supply beats to Jay-Z. Guess what? I get Jay-Z to do a hook on my first album, which he's not gonna do for like some random no-name rapper. But because I build this credibility, I'm gonna, I'm gonna use that as my currency. Or like he gets in this car accident and his jaw is wired shut and he's like, I'm gonna turn that to my advantage. How did he turn a disadvantage? Like for a rapper to have a jaw wired shut.
Through the Wire.
He creates a song called Through the Wire rapping about his time. And then, you know, the first line is like, you know, about drinking Ensure or like, you know, other people make pancakes. I just drink Sizzurp, you know, just the syrup because he can't eat solid foods. Right. So he writes his hit song when he's got the broken jaw. And he also says this other thing, he goes, I was laying there. I couldn't do nothing. Back then there's no, no like cell phones or anything. So he's no smartphones. So he's just like saying, sitting in the hospital doing nothing for 7 days. He goes, I was laying there and I decided I'm going to be the best dressed rapper in the game. He's like, because he was watching music videos. So they, they put music videos on there, but they couldn't put the volume high. So he couldn't like bump to the music. So he's just watching other rappers. So he turned the disadvantage into an advantage, which was he realized all these rappers dress the same way and it's this one style. I'm going to dress different. And now he's a fashion billionaire, you know?
And back then rap fashion was horrible. It was just like, it was like a basketball jersey and like baggy jeans. Yeah. He was the worst. So he did a good job. Let me ask, let me ask you a question real quick. Don't say their names because you might have to insult them, but the 3 wealthiest people you know, okay, what is, what around, what do you think their net worth is each?
Um, about the ones like I know, like I know well, like somebody, not just like somebody I've met.
Yeah, someone who's like a friend who you know about some of their personality traits in their personal life.
Yeah, I would say like somewhere between like 300 million and 700 million. I like, I know them, like I know about their like real life, not just like the surface level stuff.
Of those people, how many of them have this trait of being obsessed and, and to the point where if a normal person, a non-wealthy person saw their life, they would be like, dude, you're weird. Or the way that you're handling this is wrong. You know, you're, you, how many would say something like that?
100% of them. 100% of them.
What are, what are examples of them?
Yeah. So one of them, uh, they worked so hard on their business. They were so obsessed that like their family members used to come to the office and say, you gotta come home. Like you just, you're working too hard. We're afraid. And when they sold their company, like 45 days later, they had like a heart surgery because they had like worked themselves that hard during that time. Another one, I remember the day after they became worth over $100 million, I was I knew them well. That, that same night they were up till 3 in the morning working on their like new project that had like no, no, like, you know, less than 100 customers and like clearly they'd already made it. And it's like for them to stay up fixing bugs in this like test flight product that was, you know, at 3 in the morning that day, like most people would be chilling hard for it, go on a bender for a year, like wired very differently. Third person, they're not just obsessed in their work life. They're obsessed with kind of anything. Um, so they, they like, it's like if they get into like some random hobby or sport, they just take it to like a level that's not like common or like they're a hardcore gamer or they just like get, they have an obsessive personality. It's not just an obsession with work or money. That just happens to be the game that pays out in points called dollars. But they just get obsessed with any game that like catches their, catches their, their, their interest.
Yeah, that rings true to all the people I— that I know.
Do you have an example?
I'm trying to— yeah, so our mutual buddy, I wonder if I could— I'm actually not gonna say his name. So, well, I'll say it. Yeah, I could say it. Jack Smith.
So the chair, like, he— the building of the chair, right? That's an example.
Well, I'll give you a different one. So he's obsessed with If he buys anything, he'll buy 30 of them. And at his house, I've seen it. He's got a Google spreadsheet. He tracks every item in every category of thing that he's bought and he ranks it. So if you ask him about chocolate, he actually has a spreadsheet with literally 100 pieces of chocolate. He goes, I tested all of them. Here's the best one that I think is the best. When we got married, my wedding gift from him was roughly $1,000 of stuff that he considered the best. And it was so weird, like the best socks, the best underwear, the best lotion. And he's so obsessed with this that Amazon multiple times has banned him from having an account. And so he has to create different credit cards just to continue getting an account. And he's— so he's just obsessed with stuff, right? And he's, he's incredibly wealthy. And he probably got— he probably got wealthy when he was 28, really young. But he's just crazy obsessed with stuff to the point where, like, I, I just, I just, that's, I just accept that's, he's just an oddball. Right. So yeah, that, that's one example.
Let me give you another one that I thought was kind of, uh, like one of the lessons, the le— lesson number, I don't know what we're on now. Lesson 5 from Kanye, closed mouth don't get fed. So I, I don't know if you've seen this scene where he goes into, he, he kind of like, just like he, he, the, uh, there's like a point where like the, the record label is not like paying for like the studio time. 'Cause like, you know, they're, they kind of like put him on the shelf. They're like, ah, they weren't sure about him. They don't want to put the money into like promoting him and getting him to record and all this stuff. So he's like pulling in favors some way, somehow. So he goes to like, he, he asked Jamie Foxx, who he's like made beats for before. He's like, hey, I want to come over. Oh, you got the studio in your house? Yo, you mind if I just record something real quick? And like, boom, uses the studio and then gets Jamie Foxx to do vocals. And that becomes the vocals on one of his tracks. Slow Jams. Yeah, Slow Jams. Then there's one with Jay-Z. He gets into the studio with Jay-Z. Jay-Z's recording and he's like, yo, you, uh, you mind if I rap for you real quick? And he's like, yeah, okay, I guess, you know, not gonna say no. And he just freestyles on the spot with no backtrack for Jay-Z to his face, like a one-on-one, like basically just one man reciting a poem to another man. It's like kind of an amazing thing that's happening. And then Jay-Z, you see him like start to nod his head. He just starts to like, he's like, I like it. He lets him do a hook on Jay-Z's, uh, like, let's him do a verse on Jay-Z's track. And then Jay-Z says out loud in the studio, he goes, I had no idea. He goes, but that's— he goes, that just shows you, closed mouth don't get fed. And like, and then they, and then they catch on the documentary, the guy, Cudi, the recording guy, he goes, uh, Jay-Z's like leaving, and Cudi shoots his shot too. He goes, he goes, oh man, what do you think about Kanye West? And he goes, he's a Kanye West, man. He's He's got it. He's going to be big. And he goes, and then he goes, he goes, you think so? He goes, I'll put my money on it. Haha. And he like walks out the— he does like the Jay-Z laugh and walks out the studio. And they capture that and they're like, yes, we got like basically an endorsement from Jay-Z. That's going to help us keep going. And it's just one instance after another of like, in the moment of truth, he didn't sit around and wait. He shot his shot and like, you know, closed mouth don't get fed. And I just think that's like—
How did you— How did you remember all this? Were you literally just with a pen and paper taking notes?
On my phone. I was, I would write notes. I'd just write like, I'd write like it literally says closed louth because I misspelled it typing fast. Closed louth, don't get meth, don't get fed, Jay-Z. And then I, and then I thought about it, right?
Like, cause, cause this is on your, on your iPhone apps notes app. Yeah. Note. And do you do this for all your, all things like that?
Yeah. I just have notes for everything. Like I have, I have a thing called jokes and I'm like slowly building a standup comedy set over time. Like eventually I'll collect enough funny things and I'm like, oh, that could be a joke. I'll put it there.
God, I find that to be amazing. I, 'cause I watched the same thing, but you remembered so much more than I did.
I was just obsessed. I was into it, man. I, I just saw so many lessons and I, I remember like there's so many moments of my life. Like I bet you have one too, where it's, which is like, do you have a closed mouth, don't get fed moment? Like, does one jump to mind? Otherwise I'll tell you mine. And, and I, I bet you, you have one.
I probably have a few, but I, I've, I, you know, as you can expect, 'cause I got big mouth, I, Typically have always, I, I've done a good job of speaking up. What's yours?
Like when I was in college, I, uh, at the time I thought I was gonna be a doctor. So I was pre-med, I took the MCATs, I was ready to graduate and go to med school. And just for fun, I took a blow-off class. The easiest class offered on Duke campus was called Getting Rich. And obviously that changed the direction of my life. And one of the classes, so the teacher was basically, she would bring in somebody who had made it in some world and they would come and just talk to us.
So this guy was a, was this the most popular? You told me about this. Was it the most popular class?
Hardest class to get into cuz it was like highest Highest rated of easiness, of fun. And like the, on ratemyprofessor.com, the, the professor had a chili pepper next to her name. That means she's hot. So she's hot. So it was like all the, the high scores. So I got in and I, and I was sitting in class one day and the, the guy was a hedge fund guy, I think. And he was talking about his career and he's like, all right, enough about me. Like, what about you guys? Who's doing something cool? Who's, who's, who's got a business that they're trying to, trying to, who's got a business that they're, that they're running or who's got a business they wanna launch? And he started looking around the class. He basically scanned from left to right. He goes, pitch me. Like, that's what I do. I invest. So, so pitch me. And he looks from left to right. No one, it's crickets. Nobody's, you know, you've never seen a quieter group of smart people and nobody's, nobody raised their hand. I'm at the very edge of the class on the right. So I kind of had the advantage of, I had a moment to like assess the fork in the road.
Yeah.
And the, the night before me and my friends had had that dumb idea for why isn't there a Chipotle for sushi? Oh dude, we can make that. Like there was a Chipotle on campus and we want, or there's a, there's Subway on campus and we, we wanted to build a version of that fast casual thing for sushi. And I thought it was a funny idea. I had been pitching it the night before to my friends where I was safe. And now here was this guy saying, pitch me an idea and nobody's saying shit. And then I had this thing in my, like, back to identity.
I had this thing which was like, you know, you're the cool kid or something.
Not the cool kid. I mean, I definitely wasn't a cool kid in school, but I just felt to myself like, I'll take the shot. I'll take the shot. Like in basketball terms, like if in the moment of the, in the clutch moment, I'm not gonna be afraid to shoot. I might miss, but I'm not afraid to shoot. And so I did it. I raised my hand and he goes, all right, finally, what you got? And I pitched the idea and he goes, that's a terrible idea. He just like blew me off and like, but he's like, but you know, let me tell you, like, he's like, even if you go and do that and he like gave this lesson, which was like, this is America. Like it's the only country on earth where you get rewarded for failing. Like you can go fail at a business and people will give you positive credit for trying. He's like, most countries, that's just not how it works. And he goes, He goes, you know, the other thing is a lot of you guys might want to work at a hedge fund someday or investment bank or whatever. Guess what? The first 3/4 of your resume is all going to look the same. It's only the bottom, the other section that's going to have anything different between you and the next kid who also was honor roll student, did good on the SATs, and then, you know, graduated with a 3.5 GPA. So like, that's the only way that you're going to get differentiated. So you go do your sushi restaurant. It'll lead you, you know, it, it, it'll help you in what you want to do, even if it fails. And that's like pretty much exactly how it played out.
This was a good conversation because of how much you care. I thoroughly enjoyed this. I just, I barely said a word, but I enjoyed it. What do you think, Ben? It's so evident when one of us is like incredibly passionate about the topic.
Yeah. And what do you guys feel like? Is the Kanye pod in the zeitgeist? Like, do you think that most of your friends are watching it right now?
Well, everyone knows what it is.
I think, I think a lot of people are watching it. Uh, like I, I've talked to maybe like, I don't know, it's like, you know, one of the big things on Netflix is always like, oh, you're watching the thing on Netflix that's at the top. Yeah. Like I am. Yeah.
Wait, Ben, you, you haven't seen it.
I have seen it. Yeah.
I watched it. Yeah.
I think that I'm the, I'm the only one of us who finished it actually. I watched the, the third part is, uh, is not as good as, as the first two though.
No, but I've, I've seen, I've seen a couple of episodes. At the beginning.
Dude, that shit got me shook. You gotta watch that.
Like, yeah, apparently like if you're a parent, like it's just like, yeah, nightmare scenario.
Well, it's this, this lady, what's her name? She's like half white, half black, Zendaya or something. Zendaya. And she just knocks it out the park, man. This girl is so freaking good. It just, it was, it was wonderful acting. She killed it. I was really— Sarah and I both cried watching it.
Wow. And that's got like a bunch of seasons, right?
Like 2 or something. Okay. Yeah, I think 2. You gotta watch that. It's so good, man. This lady's such a good actor.
Ben, why'd you ask if it's in the zeitgeist? So you, you think it's not, or why'd you ask that?
Yeah, I just like, I would think that it would kind of reach like, maybe not Tiger King, cuz that was like a phenomenon, but I was hoping cuz I loved it so much that this documentary would be like the thing on Netflix.
And I found— yeah, that's true.
That like a third of my friends have seen it.
That's true. It's not like as popular, but his craziness is pop— like the whole thing that he's doing with that, with the guy who's dating Kim. What's the, what's his name? Pete Davidson. Pete Davidson. That thing is like even that's because that's kind of overshadowing it.
Yeah, that could be right.
His crazy is coming out hard.
I think part of the reason I liked it is part of the reason it's not like getting that big, which is essentially for the first episode, for the first part, he just like has old footage of Kanye and kind of just lets it run. With like a little bit of narration. And it's so it's not that much of like a narrative story arc that sucks you in. He just kind of like lets you be a fly on the wall.
Ben, knowing what you know, you had a podcast called Raising a Genius. Is it possible to raise a genius? Like, I didn't— you're— I didn't like that podcast because you didn't do the best job of like just telling me the answer.
So like, I listened to that. Also, he did tell the answer, but I feel like It was too narrow. It was like the guy raised 3 chess champions. Okay, I get that you can raise a chess champion.
He played chess.
Does that mean you can raise a genius or that you can out-practice people at a game of chess? Right. Like, you know, so I think those are 2 different things.
Well, so can the encouragement that Donna, whatever, Donda West, can the encouragement that she gave him be a huge factor or a small factor?
I think it's a factor. Um, the Pulgar method, this guy, Laszlo Pulgar, had a very specific method and I don't think it would work all that well for rapping because it is oriented towards like outcome-driven, like it'd be good for raising a, uh, like a guitar player or a chess champion or a swimmer or like those kinds of like very discrete, you can teach people exactly, or a tennis player would be really good. But like a rapper or something more creative, I don't know if you can like— it's almost like if it's creative, it has to come from within. You can't have someone else come out and like try and raise you.
But do you think that, that her encouragement of him made him confident, or he was born confident?
I think watching that documentary, it was crazy to see some of the mannerisms that were the same between her and Kanye. And I was like, oh, there's something genetic about this. Like, yes, it was her encouragement, but it's also like whatever he has, he kind of got from her and probably would have had it anyway.
I read this book called The Blueprint Gene, and it kind of changed my opinion where like 85% of everything is genetics. That's kind of where I am now. I'm like, even if she was rude to him, maybe he still would have killed it.
Dude, when she was rapping, she was good. The Dr. Shu Chu, she's just like reciting his rap. Oh yeah, my mom would not be able to do that.
She wasn't— she was an English teacher, right? So clearly— she was interested. I mean, it's very related.
And also he said he's been like making beats since like 6th or 7th grade, like 11 or 12. And so it's the same sort of thing. It's like, yeah, by the time you're 25, you're going to be really fucking good at something you've been doing for like over 15, you know, over 10 years basically at that point. Um, and at like a formative stage where, you know, when you're 12 and you get obsessed with something, you can kind of just like do it pretty much nonstop and get really good at something because you can pick stuff up so fast. You don't have any other things to go do, right?
No, that— it was a good documentary. There was— it got me thinking a lot. That was a good— that was a good one. I'm just not gonna— I just— I couldn't watch the rest because I, I knew she was gonna die, and it— and it was— I was being— it made me sad just watching them together. It may— I got choked up a couple times seeing them together.
Yeah, it was— she was like touching.
Yeah, yeah, she was special.
Um, the third part is like kind of interesting because it goes— it's like a 20-year time jump and then goes into like a lot of stuff he's going through now and kind of the weirdness and running for president and like all that. And like at the end, Kooty's just kind of like, yeah, man, I don't know.
Pretty weird.
You know, like he doesn't really have anything to say about it. He's just like kind of baffled as well.
Dude, it just comes with the territory. That's what happens when you're creative, man. You're going to be crazy. You got to accept the craziness. He's so crazy. Do you remember when he went to Trump's office to show him his version of Air Force One? Like he's— he like drew up what Air Force One should look like. He's, he's a, he's a mad genius.
He's a true genius.
All right. That's the episode.